'Bell' chosen over BIG-O? Do I understand this right?

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I can never tell with Adult Swim--we're talking about the goofs who had the brass cajones to have their network run through Burger King and have a stunt where people tried to free a man dressed as a chicken with a hockey stick.

Yeah...what an unpardonable deed?

(I think that was BK more than anyone else, the chicken thing...assuming we're thinking of the same thing...and they ARE absolutely insane, or at least their PR department is, and I love them for it. Because really..the king > that whole "hey urban community, eat our horrible food, BA DA DA DA DA, I'M LOVIN IT" thing mcdonalds does.)

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seriously undermine anime's credibility

"anime credibility"? I'm not even familiar with that concept.

In the end...I think MST3K said it best, "just keep telling yourself 'it's just a show, I should really just relax' " (Coincidentally, if AS ever decided to show MST3K reruns...I'd allow nearly ANYTHING to be scrapped in favor of that, even something I liked. I miss that show so much, and it sort of lines up well with the general AS sense of humor)

Seriously. I don't feel like buying the sporadic dvd releases..SOMEBODY BUY THE RIGHTS TO THAT SHOW.

edit: "Pu-ma man, he flies like a moron"

edit 2:

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Take RahXephon, Full Metal Alchemist, Gundam, Cyber City Oedo 808, BIG-O Vampire Hunter D and put them next to Dexter's Lab, Bug's Bunny, and Disney’s Emperor’s New Groove or The Wild. If you can't see the night and day difference in the quality of visual aesthetic and story depth, I feel sorry for you.

Yeah...because I really did try to compare ghost in the shell with chip 'n dales rescue rangers or something.

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apanese animation--whatever you want to call it--while it is "animation," looking at the larger scheme (not junk like Milk Chan) is a whole different animal than Western animation.

Alot of series are, yeah. Saying all Japanese animation is as good as some of the most prime examples (big o, etc) of it is one of the bigger generalizations you can make though.

This in no way clarifies what this "credibility" is supposed to mean, or how a joke press release is demeaning it.

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a show about sock-puppets and pet rocks is just the most awesome thing evar!!!

Whats sad is this sounds potentially more entertaining than any given episode of "tom goes to the mayor"

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seriously undermine anime's credibility

Anime had credibility? There cartoons folks, nothing more.

I in all honesty think this is a joke (but perhaps it's true) and this seems like rabid Big O fan overracting as usual.

I don't watch AS anymore even though they show stuff I'd like to watch. I like what I saw of FMA, thought GiTS was dull, but SCRYED just sucked horribly the VA's were terrible, the story was beyond predictable, and the opening theme just made me laugh. Drastic My Soul! Whatever that means
But I digress. AS has been showing some really stupid stuff in an attempt to be on the cutting edge of comedy. 12 ounce mouse, squidbillies, Hooper and Stroke were all just....lame or predictable. ATHF was funny but they shouldn't try to copy there success onto lame copies of it. Saved by the Bell was lame to start with and there is no need for a sequel to something that uncreative and plebian. Big O at least took some brain-power to view and understand but AS is moving away from an audience that thinks to an audience that is so stoned they'll think a show about sock-puppets and pet rocks is just the most awesome thing evar!!!

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Originally posted by Sharpshooter005 (Coincidentally, if AS ever decided to show MST3K reruns...I'd allow nearly ANYTHING to be scrapped in favor of that, even something I liked. I miss that show so much, and it sort of lines up well with the general AS sense of humor)

Yes. YES! Oh god, yes!! I might actually start watching Adult Swim again if they did that.

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Originally posted by Gaddes quote: seriously undermine anime's credibility Anime had credibility? There cartoons folks, nothing more.

There's a couple of people here who have echoed this sentiment. No offense, but I personally think it shows a severe lack of comprehension. It must be acknowledged that Anime, Japanese animation--whatever you want to call it--while it is "animation," looking at the larger scheme (not junk like Milk Chan) is a whole different animal than Western animation. When one thinks of animation, the West has been trained to immediately think goofiness or "cartoon." However, animation is an art form capable of wide variety of expressions, and "anime" captures a completely different facet. It's like saying “literature” (anime) as opposed to the “dime novels” (cartoons). Both are “written stories,” but they’re not the same, are they? They carry different connotations and are meant for different purposes.

Take RahXephon, Full Metal Alchemist, Gundam, Cyber City Oedo 808, BIG-O Vampire Hunter D and put them next to Dexter's Lab, Bug's Bunny, and Disney’s Emperor’s New Groove or The Wild. If you can't see the night and day difference in the quality of visual aesthetic and story depth, I feel sorry for you. Anime doesn't even have the intentions of "animation," because it stems from a culture that used it for the longest time in place of its lacking live-action industry. It's ideologically a replacement for live-action, whereas Bug's Bunny and co were not.

Do I still like Western animation for laughs, sure. But if I want something heady, moving, or exciting I'll head to anime. Both are entertaining, but in different ways; thus, they are different things. Again, no offense to anyone, but I'm not an otaku by any means when I say these things—I’ve yet to attend a convention in my life, I don’t do cosplay or think anything of it, and I have a life outside of anime—but anime gives me something more than entertainment. When seeing quality anime, it's a moving experience that works the mind, no different from those who like to go to art museums or read Hemmingway. In that same way, anime, while it shares its origins with what is traditionally known as animation, is something different; something evolved. End of story.

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Originally posted by Sharpshooter005 In the end...I think MST3K said it best, "just keep telling yourself 'it's just a show, I should really just relax' "

...you know, a lot of American Idol fans would probably do nasty things to you having said that

...*Sighs at Paradigm Dog's post.*

...Who wants to field that? I have a scholarship letter to write.

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It must be acknowledged that Anime

So it must be acknowledged as animation? Hate to be the bearer of bad news but their the same damn thing and this just reeks of Otaku setiment. Get over it folks anime is not above and beyond all things animated.

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Who wants to field that?

I'd take a stab at it however, I don't really want to waste my time on arguing an extremely narrow view of anime fandom.

Warning Warning Otaku alert abandon thread abandon thread! *flees*

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Originally by Sharpshooter005 Yeah...because I really did try to compare ghost in the shell with chip 'n dales rescue rangers or something.

That's the best thing I've read all day. But actually when you think about, both are crime fighting vanguards. You can say the differences end there, especially since one uses technological and psychic warfare as the other one is composed of a group of talking animals who fights other talking animals, but seriously, you're just pulling hairs at that point.
Peace.

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Originally posted by Zenigata-Da-Vida quote: Originally posted by Sharpshooter005 In the end...I think MST3K said it best, "just keep telling yourself 'it's just a show, I should really just relax' " ...you know, a lot of American Idol fans would probably do nasty things to you having said that

A wise man once said, "If you watch American Idol, you automatically fail at life."

That man was me, and I said it to my aunt after she excused herself from the Passover table in order to watch the show.

And I think someone just insulted the art of Tex Avery, which is punishable by death.

I like the snappy, judgemental rhetoric some are delivering...nice.

Unfortunately, fair critical thinking and EQ in this matter are lacking in many of the responses.

'Chip and Dale' the same as 'Ghost in the Shell'...that really says it all, doesn't it? I guess red and blue are probably both the same also since they're colors. Any proper English or Art course will tell you it's OK to analyze art as well as enjoy it; one shouldn't be so afraid to embrace that. You never hear someone saying a Monet painting is the same as a Da Vinci painting. And, as for the pathetic "reeks of otaku" cop-out...maybe, no offense, you should look at the greater number of stars and fancy titles under your avatars and rethink the fairness of that statement. Don't be so quick to assumptions.

As suggested, it's time to close this thread. I apologize if feelings were hurt during this discourse. All the best!

PS- I never insulted Tex Avery. Like I said earlier, that's great, entertaining, clever stuff (it should still be shown on CN)!!! But, that said, it's a completely different spectrum than anime. For better of for worse, after analysis across the board, I believe there's a distinction. How one reacts to that is up to them--it's a matter of personal preference. Attacking art or ideas was never my intention--I just wanted to try and express that distinction, just as an English teacher would say there's a difference between 'Heart of Darkness' and 'Charlie Brown comic strip collection.' Both are good, but undeniably, decidedly different in what they are.

That...that's not what he meant. I thought he meant, of all American animated shows to compare GiTS to, you picked silly kids' ones. Instead of say, Batman. And there are also a lot of kiddie anime, too.

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you should look at the greater number of stars and fancy titles under your avatars and rethink the fairness of that statement.

The stars under our avatars have nothing to do with being an otaku or not being one. So enjoying a board and the people on the board is an otaku trait as well? well logic like that is instant faliure in my book. What is otaku in nature is setting up a web.....opps nevermind.

I do agree, close the thread or lock it.

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Originally posted by Mike That...that's not what he meant. I thought he meant, of all American animated shows to compare GiTS to, you picked silly kids' ones. Instead of say, Batman. And there are also a lot of kiddie anime, too.

I'll say one last thing to really clarify/close my arguement since this was brought up. While 'Batman: The Animated Series' was a quality series and lots of fun with darker tones, and while there are both "kiddie" animation in both Japan and America, there's a distinction across the board:

Take the best animated show over here you can think of: Maybe it's Batman (which is animated overseas, so that's already cheating a bit). In any case, Batman's scripts are written here in America. Now, take Batman's most advanced script (it's been a while since I've seen them)--maybe those Ras Al-Ghoul episodes--and place it next to the best animation scripts from Japan. I hate to say it, but the facts are that Batman's best script doesn't match the heavy adult political and social implications of Ghost in the Shell, the exestentialism and complex/emotional character study of relationships of RahXephon, the cyclical war themes/philosophies and sin and redemption of child soldiers of Gundam Wing, etc. Looking across the board, the amount of animation tackling complex adult/real world themes with high-end produced animation and music and great technical detail in action sequences is unmatched in Western animation and few, like Batman, even come remotely close.

Could Western animation execute this form of animation (dubbed, for better lack of a term, "anime") and do it one better, too? It's definitely possible with time, but Americans don't want to--they see little validity or point in this. Just as Western cinema is something much different (and largely, arguebly easily much better) than that in the East. Japan has a completely different context of animation. Just look at how death is portray in Batman or other Western animation--if it is portrayed much at all--and then look at "anime's" portrayal.

The fact is, despite the abundance of "kiddie" animation on both sides of the world, the amount and extent to which Japan does their animation for adults (all the things mentioned above) makes it a different art form.

If it's OK, since this was brought up, I'd like to hear general thoughts about this statement of the broader picture. Then this behemoth down can be shut down.

Yeah, people in Japan do take animation more seriously. Nobody is denying that. But don't automatically discount all American animation as drivel, either. I think that's what people are tryign to get across.

This thread has gotten WAY off track from the start, and it even started out even shaky.

Paradigm Dog, please do not take this the wrong way (this isn't trolling or flaming at all), but it is to my understanding that the majority of threads involving anime (or Big O, to be specific) that you're involved with either start off or result in you complaining about the lack of effort on Adult Swim's part in terms of making a third season of the Big O. That usually blends into an inane discussion, such as the one we're having right now.

Now, since the same thing happens with the same result, wouldn't it be best to put the idea to rest?

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Originally posted by Gaddes What is otaku in nature is setting up a web.....opps nevermind.

That doesn't mean much coming from someone who is so paranoid about otaku that he rarely posts a message without mentioning the word "otaku" or "japanophile"... Seriously though, it seems that people are throwing that word around without even knowing what it means. "Otaku" simply means someone who is obsessed with something. It doesn't even have to be anime. Now, if someone was posting about how anime was their life and how they honestly believe they can throw a Kamehameha if they practice long enough, then yes, I would consider them an otaku. But things like posting on an anime message board, preferring Japanese animation to American animation, or setting up an anime web site as a hobby do not necessarily make someone an otaku.

Now let's please try to get back on topic (if there is anything left to discuss here) or this thread will need to be locked.

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Originally posted by Krang quote: Originally posted by Gaddes What is otaku in nature is setting up a web.....opps nevermind. That doesn't mean much coming from someone who is so paranoid about otaku that he rarely posts a message without mentioning the word "otaku" or "japanophile"... Seriously though, it seems that people are throwing that word around without even knowing what it means. "Otaku" simply means someone who is obsessed with something. It doesn't even have to be anime. Now, if someone was posting about how anime was their life and how they honestly believe they can throw a Kamehameha if they practice long enough, then yes, I would consider them an otaku. But things like posting on an anime message board, preferring Japanese animation to American animation, or setting up an anime web site as a hobby do not necessarily make someone an otaku. Now let's please try to get back on topic (if there is anything left to discuss here) or this thread will need to be locked.

Well Met. I yield and I'm well aware what otaku means.

Ok.So yeah. Someone said that "AS can't afford 13 episodes"

They can afford it. But they're only going to make it if they think they will make a profit off it. They can make stuff like ATHF for basically free, and lots and lots of people watch that, while they probably think that not as many people will watch Big O, judging by its season 2 ratings. They won't make something just because somebody asked nicely. They have to be able to see some kind of profit in it. And yes, Japanese companies do this too.

Anyway...yeah. The Saved By The Bell thing is probably a joke. AS probably believes that they are the reason that Big O, Family Guy and (apparently now) Futurama were renewed after long hiatuses.

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Originally posted by Krang ...and how they honestly believe they can throw a Kamehameha if they practice long enough...

You see more and more people trying to act like ninjas thanks to Naruto. I sh** you not. Hell, the ninjas on Naruto aren't even real ninjas (I see no guitars, frisbees and seppuku, only fruity fox demons with bandanas, WHICH DOES NOT MAKE YOU A NINJA!). Something's gotta give.

With that said, I'm going to try and channel all of my energy to my index finger.

(BTW, Krang wins the thread...and it should be locked!)