Confused about something...

BigOFan 04-18-2006 04:13 PM
Theres another thing that I haven't quite been able to put a finger on after watching Big O (I am watching the DVD again to see if I missed it).

What exactly are the events of 40 years ago that Roger keeps referring to through out the series?

Note: I am not sure if this would spoil it, in the event that there are other people joining who have never seen Big O. If you do not feel comfortable responding in the forum, you can PM or email me a response.
Jstar136 04-18-2006 06:08 PM
To be truthful, it's never explicitly stated.

Most believe some sort of experiment continually recycles and the current Roger had broken the chain.
Schoolie 04-18-2006 08:52 PM
My theory has something to do with this . . .

Forty years ago, man had finally reached the point where their own technology became their undoing. In building mechas (the Bigs), they had caused some sort of worldwide destruction - either through the Bigs going rogue or armies fighting each other.

Something happened to end the apocalypse and create the lost memories. It was a way to save at least part of the world. My bet is that it connects to the Behemoth we see toward the end of the series.

Of course, there are a LOT of holes here (both the show history and my theory), but I'm okay with it. It's such a good series that I don't need to know all the exact details.
BigOFan 04-19-2006 08:13 PM
In Act 13: R.D., the character called "R.D." looks similar to R. Dorothy. Actually I thought it was R. Dorothy at first, but then realized it wasn't.

Who was she? Where did she come from? Was she an android or an actual human who was hired by Alex Rosewater to kill those people?
Dangerous 04-20-2006 07:23 AM
Did Timothy Wayneright build only one Dorothy ? I think he built other ones; remember the episode 15 when Roger entered inside Wayneright mannor.

Maybe am I wrong ?
ScionofDestiny 04-20-2006 09:53 AM
Timothy Wayneright dealt with some shady characters - Beck for example. He was trying to raise money so he could build the real Dorothy (II) - who would later come to dwell with Roger, Norman, and Big O. I think that Timothy Wayneright was hired to make RD for the Paradigm Firm or the Union - just like Glinda (giant robot in Act 15 where Senator Fitzgerald was killed) was. He was given enough money to make them, and then some extra for himself, which he would use to make his own Dorothy. I think that RD looks like Dorothy because Timothy Wayneright was instructed to make a killer android BUT wasn't specified on what she would look like. Conversely with this theory, I speculate that the reason Dorothy I (the gaint mecha Roger destroys in Act 1 and 2) was made with Dorothy's consciousness. Roger explained that Dorothy I was Dorothy II's alter-ego - meaning that they are the same consciousness but from different perspectives. In this case, Dorothy is an android and Dorothy is a Megadeus.

So RD was a PHYSICAL practice for Timothy Wayneright - making an android that looks like his daughter - and Dorothy II was CONSCIOUSNESS practice on how to make her OS, ego, conscioisness, possibly what might be considered a soul - whatever it was. Material and Immaterial practice. In short, Timothy Wayneright gave Beck, Solderno, and the Paradigm Firm/Union the robots they wanted - but at the same time, he used them as archetypes for the robot he wanted - namely, Dorothy II. That was probably why everyone else felt like Dorothy II was worthless early on, but then there was competition to obtain her in the later series.

If you think that is complicated, remember that Big O is complicated - and it was probably out of desire not to complicate it any further that the writers decided not to explain this more explictly. I think they hinted at it though. Why else would Dorothy I be Dorothy II's alter ego? Why else would RD look physically like Dorothy II but her consciousness was completely different?

BY THE WAY - I think that RD was made for the Union, not the Paradigm Firm. She wears a red cloak, and Angel wears a red cloak. Since Angel works for Paradigm as well as the Union, this isn't a giveaway - but Vera ALSO wears a red cloak, and she hates Paradigm but is the leader of the Union. Also, the Union hate people, other tomatoes, with memories - they have a motive for wanting them dead. I think that RD might have obeyed the Paradigm Firm though, since the Union was being "subserviant" to Alex Rosewater at that time.

Conversely, the male robot who was killing other robots that had regained their memories also wore a red coat - different design (he was a guy), but it was red. Also, RED balloons are the sign of the Union. More Union evidence.

AND NOW - the first question. What happened forty years before?

A Paradigm Shift is a sudden change in the perception of a reality or the way we think - so it's is linked to perception, how we see the universe around us (with color or in black in white for example) and also what we think about that reality. Paradigm is a real word and was historically used to explain how certain religious texts being found revolutionized the way we perceived the divine in all of us, or how, one-hundred years ago, when Phycisists who thought they had discovered the composition of the universe learned about atoms, subatomic depth, and things like Einstein's theory of special relativity - it was called a "paradigm shift" because the way they thought about reality, how they perceived the universe mechanics, was completely wrong and CHANGED practically overnight.

Thus we learn something about the possible meaning of Paradigm City.

Now ... CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING.

Roger Smith before the Event was probably a Major in the United States Army. We can deduce that from the following:

1. In Roger the Wanderer, the women who calls herself Lieutenant (is Angel) calls him Major and asks "have you forgotten me as well?" - remember, people forgot things from before forty years ago. If Roger has forgotten he was a Major, it was before forty years ago.

2. Paradigm City is New York City. Brooklyn Bridge, Hudson River, the cathedral in the Heaven's Day episode ... there is no other way. Many buildings in Paradigm City are based on buildings that exist today. It is speculated that Roger's house is an actual bank somewhere in Brooklyn or parts of Manhatten that haven't fallen into the ocean - also, consider the fact that Paradigm City is divided into islands by the domes - like New York. The point is that New York is in the United States, so logically Paradigm City is also in the United States. Also, they use US Currency and follow parts of the US Constitution.

2. The current Roger is probably a clone or similar being to the Roger prior to forty years ago.

When we show the code being engraved into Roger's retina by Gordon Rosewater, I speculated that it is the memories of the Roger from forty years ago being engraved into his clone to make a consciousness, or soul if you like, that was identical to the Roger from forty years before.

This theory is supported by the "tomato" theory. I think they are called "tomato children" because they are placed in a Vegetative State -no thought or memory or sentinent awareness - just flesh. They are then imbued with a soul through the memories of people who lived forty years before - like Roger the Major.

3. I assume that since Dastun is promoted to Colonel in season 2, that the Roger from forty years before was probably a lieutenant in the United States Army - just as Roger from forty years after is a lieutenant in the Military Police - who was promoted to the position his Major was before Dastun became a colonel.

4. The above assumption follows the theory that the scenario prior to forty years ago was similar to the scenario after forty years ago - that which we see in Act 26. I don't think it is a repeating process. I just think that Paradigm City was rebuilt to be a stage where the same thing that happened before would happen again.

5. Machines didn't run amok - that is a lie, as Gordon Rosewater points out himself right after he says it. Humans wielded the power of God - the Paradigm Shift to change reality and to make a Revelation.

6. Act 26 is a scenario modeled after the Book of Revelation (10) - it follows an almost exact scenario. Again, more evidence of the power of God wielded by man.

7. Major Dastun saw a movie when he was a kid, modeled himself after it, or was indirectly forced to model himself after it, and then the "power" beyond Paradigm City made a kid who was view him the same way he would view that movie as a means of imitating the scenario.

I have more - I'lll post it later.
R. Daniel Olk 01 04-21-2006 11:06 AM
Are you sure that the "robots run amok" scenario is really a lie? It was revealed in Act 26 that Gordon Rosewater actively deluded himself, and had been trying to draw Roger into his philosophy, as well. When Gordon Rosewater said "all of it is a lie," he very well might have been trying to delude Roger.
Lost_Cyborg 04-22-2006 07:45 AM
*Wince* This has made be think again... It's such a @ӣ^* convoluted plot
R. Daniel Olk 01 04-23-2006 11:25 AM
Yeah, but it feels good when you know enough of it that you can counter someone's multi-page dissertation with a single question.
Lost_Cyborg 04-23-2006 02:37 PM
heheh... Yeah... (which is why I don't type up really long descriptions unless my opinion on it is rock solid).
ScionofDestiny 04-23-2006 04:27 PM
ALRIGHT - I'm going to make a post about the "allegory of the cave" that is present in Big O and the Truman Show. Look out for it.