Episode 51 Discussion- The Final Episode

Sephiroth 03-19-2006 05:43 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Raven
Wow, can we assume that Roy FINALLY put the moves on Hawkeye. Man, I've never seen a ladies man who is so damn blind. Anyway, that was a good episode. I didn't realize Pride actually killed his son until I read that in this thread. Oh well, he got what he deserved. Oh and poor Archer, shot in the back for all his troubles.

By the way, what happened to Envy anyway?


spoiler (highlight to read):
He's on the other side of the gate with Ed and Hoenhiem. In the movie, the Thule Society finds him and is trying to harness his power.
Ano Hito 03-19-2006 08:02 PM
Can anyone get me some caps of Envy's original face?
evanASF27 03-19-2006 08:40 PM
quote:
Originally posted by NVWC2006
And we got to see Hawkeye with her hair down! she is officially the hottest girl in the series Big Grin

Damn straight.

quote:
Originally posted by Shredder
Thanks for the background, MercZ. That is the right guy- Hoenheim mentions him by name when they show his face from the front.

...I always thought that was the guy Pride was created after. I mean, he looked a lot like Pride minus the eyepatch.
Gato Gurl914 03-20-2006 11:49 AM
all i have to say is woah.
Nine Kuze 03-20-2006 01:15 PM
Needless to say, this is one of the best episodes of not only FullMetal Alchemist that I've ever seen but of all of anime in a long time. But alas, its over.

- Actually, I thought the episode was horribly rushed. And they complain about Big O. It seems like they couldn't just wait to show you what happens at the end.

- The sound and music in this episode was amazing and just so damn good (like the piano score with Riza crying over Roy and Ed and Envy at the Gate).

- I didn't really like the Thule Society part. I felt like it wasn't needed at that it was just there to promote the movie a bit.

- Now here's something I don't get or maybe I'm just nit-picking but its the whole thing with Pride, Selim, and the skull. How the hell did Pride even let that happen? He has the Ultimate Eye. I just would have thought that his eye would have let him seen that Selim had his skull in his bag. His Ultimate Eye can see the outcome of any situation but it couldn't see that? Come on, it just bothers me.

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Someone finally got the idea to aim correctly at Archer.

I know. You'd think someone would have thought of the brillant idea of shooting Archer's human side other than his automail. But gotta give credit to Riza and her sharpshootin'.

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Oh, and for the record, Envy's dragon form is STILL not as cool as his true form in the manga.

Oh so true, Sephiroth. This form just seemed... original. Now the manga version, that's as fresh as you know what.

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i find Ed saying no one believes Einstein to be humerous. and being apparantly on better terms with his father, enough to go to Germany (they had landed in London before, so I'm assuming he just went to the same place)

That Einstein part was funny. Try saying that now, Edward! But yeah, I think with all things considered, Central City is London and Resembool is Munich. Just my thought.

quote:
am I the only one who found the reference to the massive inflation in Germany pre-WWII humorous? You know, I probably am.

No, I found that to be funny as well. 14 dollars for one piece of fruit. Screw that. Hohenheim should have just transmuted the apple with alchemy and... oh, yeah. Sorry.

quote:
Wow, can we assume that Roy FINALLY put the moves on Hawkeye. Man, I've never seen a ladies man who is so damn blind

Well, give the guy a break. He lost his left eye to Archer and... oh, you're talking about how it took Roy so long to work that game of his on a real fine woman like Riza. Oh, then yeah, he is blind.

quote:
It seems Dante got killed by Gluttony, and Gluttony seems to have disappeared. What happened?

Don't know what happened to Dante. Hopefully, yeah she did get killed.
spoiler (highlight to read):
But Gluttony makes an appearance in the movie so he didn't get killed.
I have to say though, the scene where the elevator opened and was empty was really badass.

quote:
By the way, what happened to Envy anyway?

What Sephiroth said. And also...
spoiler (highlight to read):
He finally kills Hohenheim! But it was sort of like a helped suicide thing.


quote:
And we got to see Hawkeye with her hair down! she is officially the hottest girl in the series

Like Z.D.V. said, damn straight she is. We have a new champion!
Give me that! *looks at Lust and rips the crown of her head*

Also, one last thing. How sweet is the guy in my avatar (yeah, that's Al)? Shutting Dante the hell up (someone had to) and going out like that for his brother. Just beautiful. I just wished he smacked Envy around a little bit before he used the Philosopher's Stone. And he finally gets his body back, which is just awesome. Just awesome.
Peace.
Raven 03-20-2006 01:49 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Nine XXVI
Well, give the guy a break. He lost his left eye to Archer and... oh, you're talking about how it took Roy so long to work that game of his on a real fine woman like Riza. Oh, then yeah, he is blind.


It’s not only that… Roy seems like the guy who goes out and sweet talks every girl he possibly can. However, Hawkeye has always been there for him and is willing to do anything to help him achieve his goals. She even put her own life on the sidelines for him. It’s not like she’s ugly, and you’d think he’d get all the hints she’s been throwing at him by now. I’m just glad to see he might have finally come around.

quote:
Don't know what happened to Dante. Hopefully, yeah she did get killed.


Yeah, I hope she felt every second of it too. It angers me every time she’s on screen to see her parading around in Lyra’s stolen body as it slowly decays.

quote:
Also, one last thing. How sweet is the guy in my avatar (yeah, that's Al)? Shutting Dante the hell up (someone had to) and going out like that for his brother. Just beautiful. I just wished he smacked Envy around a little bit before he used the Philosopher's Stone. And he finally gets his body back, which is just awesome. Just awesome.


Naw, I never thought Al was all that great. I’m glad to see him finally get his body back and all, but it would have been nice to see him kick some ass beforehand. I was actually surprised how passive both Ed and Al were towards Envy.

Anyway, I know this sounds horrible, but I actually laughed when Pride killed his son. Maybe that was just due to the kid’s horrible VA.
Nine Kuze 03-20-2006 01:58 PM
quote:
Anyway, I know this sounds horrible, but I actually laughed when Pride killed his son. Maybe that was just due to the kid’s horrible VA.

Oh hell no. The kid got what was coming to him. He decided to go back to the house and he decided to bring the skull to his father by accident. And if were going by just VA, then I hope this kid rots in hell.

quote:
Naw, I never thought Al was all that great. I’m glad to see him finally get his body back and all, but it would have been nice to see him kick some ass beforehand. I was actually surprised how passive both Ed and Al were towards Envy.


Come on, you gotta give Al his credit where its due. He's a stand up dude who did what Edward did for him, except he did it better. And yes, he should have kicked SOOOO much ass before using the stone. It's not like they could have really hurt him either.

I have to agree because that is actually surprising. Al was talking to Dante and Envy about bringing Ed back like it was normal. Maybe its because they now know, to a degree mind you, that Envy's thy're big brother. You know, I was hoping throughout the entire series that Envy and Hohenheim confronted each other. That would have been very interesting to see.

quote:
It’s not only that… Roy seems like the guy who goes out and sweet talks every girl he possibly can. However, Hawkeye has always been there for him and is willing to do anything to help him achieve his goals. She even put her own life on the sidelines for him. It’s not like she’s ugly, and you’d think he’d get all the hints she’s been throwing at him by now. I’m just glad to see he might have finally come around.

Um, maybe because she's special to him? He just thought of her as a friend? Maybe he feels for her so much that he couldn't express his love for her in a certain way? Maybe he's terrified of her gun lust (I think its attractive personally Big Grin )? I don't know but yeah, throughout the series Roy has shown that he's a real playa but have shoved it in Riza's face the whole time. She has the patience of a saint.
Peace.
Raven 03-20-2006 02:12 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Nine XXVI
You know, I was hoping throughout the entire series that Envy and Hohenheim confronted each other.


Well, I was kind of wishing for that to happen as well. I never really cared much for Envy until he killed off Hughes in a very pimp way. I was starting to really like him as a villain near the end when he beat down Al, Pride, Wrath, and Ed on different occasions. It just came to me as a surprise they he would emerge as the most important homunculus when you look at who they seemed to focus on all series, and that got him a little more respect from me.

quote:
Um, maybe because she's special to him? He just thought of her as a friend? Maybe he feels for her so much that he couldn't express his love for her in a certain way? Maybe he's terrified of her gun lust (I think its attractive personally Big Grin )? I don't know but yeah, throughout the series Roy has shown that he's a real playa but have shoved it in Riza's face the whole time. She has the patience of a saint.


Well there is no denying that she’s a babe. Thanks to her cool personality, she’s one of the few female characters that didn’t annoy the hell out of me. I always felt a bit bad for her during the series because I could always picture her wondering “Why not me?” every time Mustang went off with yet another woman. I think maybe the he was afraid of any kind of commitment. Tongue At least he didn’t treat her like a piece of meat though like Miroku did to Sango in Inuyasha. (Just mentioning it because I always hated that pairing.)

Oh yeah, and the series needed more Hawkeye gun action.
Nine Kuze 03-20-2006 02:27 PM
quote:
Well, I was kind of wishing for that to happen as well. I never really cared much for Envy until he killed off Hughes in a very pimp way. I was starting to really like him as a villain near the end when he beat down Al, Pride, Wrath, and Ed on different occasions. It just came to me as a surprise they he would emerge as the most important homunculus when you look at who they seemed to focus on all series, and that got him a little more respect from me.


I HATED the way Envy killed Hughes. Don't get me wrong, the way he did was one of the best scenes of all FMA and it totally gangsta. But its just that, I really, really liked Hughes, damn it.

Well, which homonculus do you think they focused on the most throughout the series? To me, I always thought Envy was the top one because he knew just about everything. And if you're thinking about Lust, I can understand that because that's how it was shown in the beginning of the series. And I was always annoyed with Envy when I found out he was the boys' older brother (way before the episode aired) mostly because of the way he dresses and his voice. Really, WTF?

quote:
Well, I was kind of wishing for that to happen as well

Yeah, because throughout the whole damn series, Envy was always walking around with this chip on his shoulder saying that he'd kill Hohenheim if he had the chance and that he hates him very, very much. I didn't respect him in the end, because he's still a bitch. And the end really made that clear for me but I'll give him this; he did become a helluva loy more interesting if nothing else.

quote:
At least he didn’t treat her like a piece of meat though like Miroku did to Sango in Inuyasha. (Just mentioning it because I always hated that pairing.)

That's true but how are you going to hate on the Sango/Miroku pairing? Well, actually I guess I see your point but I really like Sango. Although, Miroku does really care for Sango. He just has a piss poor way for showing 95% of the time. Anyway, Roy and Riza's relationship was always based on the military and their workplace, such as the two ALWAYS calling each other either general, colonel, or first lt. And like how Riza said that the only reason she's in the military is because to protect Roy. Wonder if he knows that's her reason.

Also, there's something else that annoyed me about the ending: Wrath lived. No offense to Izumi and Sig but I hate Wrath with a passion. At least he'll get his in the movie. Pleased
Peace.
Raven 03-20-2006 06:00 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Nine XXVI
I HATED the way Envy killed Hughes. Don't get me wrong, the way he did was one of the best scenes of all FMA and it totally gangsta. But its just that, I really, really liked Hughes, damn it.


Well, Hughes was ok, but it was really time for him to go. I was really getting tired of the joke where he flashed around pictures of his kid. I also hated how he’d just snap from goofy mode to serious mode at the drop of a hat.

quote:
Well, which homonculus do you think they focused on the most throughout the series?


Well, definitely Lust for one. I still can’t believe she just went out the way she did. I also believe Sloth and Pride would do more than they actually did, but oh well. (By the way, did they just forget about Pride being the Ultimate Eye after that episode with Martel?)

quote:
That's true but how are you going to hate on the Sango/Miroku pairing? Well, actually I guess I see your point but I really like Sango. Although, Miroku does really care for Sango. He just has a piss poor way for showing 95% of the time. Anyway, Roy and Riza's relationship was always based on the military and their workplace, such as the two ALWAYS calling each other either general, colonel, or first lt. And like how Riza said that the only reason she's in the military is because to protect Roy. Wonder if he knows that's her reason.


I hated Miroku x Sango because he pretty much treated her like sh**. He knew she like him, yet he constantly grabs her ass and flirt with every girl he saw. Then, he’d use a few seconds of sweet talking to make her feel better. This is followed by more ass grabbing of course. At least with Mustang and Riza, he doesn’t seem like he realizes she likes him so he has an excuse to flirt with other girls in front of her. Not only that, but he shows at least an ounce of respect for her.

quote:
Also, there's something else that annoyed me about the ending: Wrath lived. No offense to Izumi and Sig but I hate Wrath with a passion. At least he'll get his in the movie.


Yep, he was annoying to the end. I didn’t like his little last second change of heart either.
Sephiroth 03-20-2006 06:08 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Raven
I also believe Sloth and Pride would do more than they actually did, but oh well. (By the way, did they just forget about Pride being the Ultimate Eye after that episode with Martel?)


No, they mentioned the ultimate Eye in the previous episode. Pride broke the wall in the basement to allow the air to circulate into and out of the room, thus keeping the air in a state of flux so Mustang would have no ability to properly control the molecules around him. All of this based of course, on the visions of his ultimate eye. Oh and I agree that he did very little in the series overall. Which dissappointed me, since he does quite a lot in the manga.
Nine Kuze 03-21-2006 03:25 PM
quote:
I was really getting tired of the joke where he flashed around pictures of his kid. I also hated how he’d just snap from goofy mode to serious mode at the drop of a hat.

I'll agree with the picture thing (damn, I just completely forgot the kid's name) but that's what made Hughes so damn lovable because he was so goofy!

quote:
Well, definitely Lust for one. I still can’t believe she just went out the way she did

I'll agree on that one. That sucked so hard, after she just turned over a new leaf and it was by Wrath of all people. Although, itwas interesting to see how Gluttony kept reacting to Lust being missing and to hearing that she was killed. Ahh, he misses his partner.

quote:
Oh and I agree that he did very little in the series overall. Which dissappointed me, since he does quite a lot in the manga.

Well as King Bradley, he did a little something-something thoughout the whole series but his alter ego, Pride, yeah until the end he didn't do jack. And that's a waste of character because like Sephiroth said, he is so badass in the manga version. I mean what he did to Greed was amazing in the manga and dude was rocking four sabers with him. Four sabers! At once! I guess he didn't do much at the end because the creators wanted to make his true identity a surprise. It kind of was, especially when he revealed the Ulimate Eye, but still. Pride could have done a lot more.

Okay, something else has been buggin' the you know what out of me int eh last episode. At the end, we see Alphonse traveling with Izumi to study alchemy again and then we see Edward with Hohenheim traveling to Transylvania to study physics and all that. The thing that gets me is that when we see Edward, its 1921. But when we see Alphonse and Sheska was reading her letter to us, it was probably a few weeks after the whole ordeal happened. So... WTF? Does our world travel faster than the "Hagaren" world, or am I just over looking this whole thing?
Peace.
evanASF27 03-21-2006 05:49 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Nine XXVI
quote:
I was really getting tired of the joke where he flashed around pictures of his kid. I also hated how he’d just snap from goofy mode to serious mode at the drop of a hat.

I'll agree with the picture thing (damn, I just completely forgot the kid's name) but that's what made Hughes so damn lovable because he was so goofy!

Alicia? O_o

quote:
Okay, something else has been buggin' the you know what out of me int eh last episode. At the end, we see Alphonse traveling with Izumi to study alchemy again and then we see Edward with Hohenheim traveling to Transylvania to study physics and all that. The thing that gets me is that when we see Edward, its 1921. But when we see Alphonse and Sheska was reading her letter to us, it was probably a few weeks after the whole ordeal happened. So... WTF? Does our world travel faster than the "Hagaren" world, or am I just over looking this whole thing?
Peace.

Well lets make a makeshift timeline to sort it out. What year was it (on "our" side of the Gate) when Ed first crossed over? if it's only a few years, I doubt the characters would have changed as drastically as say 20 years time. (I mean look at the early part of FMA when Ed and Al began traveling, they aged from somewheres around 10 to roughly 14 or 16 (I forget which) and there was little change overall.)
Nine Kuze 03-21-2006 06:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Zenigata-Da-Vida
Well lets make a makeshift timeline to sort it out. What year was it (on "our" side of the Gate) when Ed first crossed over? if it's only a few years, I doubt the characters would have changed as drastically as say 20 years time. (I mean look at the early part of FMA when Ed and Al began traveling, they aged from somewheres around 10 to roughly 14 or 16 (I forget which) and there was little change overall.)


I think one is named Gracia and the other is named Alicia but I can never remember for the life of me who is who. Sorry, Maes. Much love though!

Anyway, when Ed first came to our side (in episode: The Other Side of the Gate) the date was September 2, 1916. Something like that I'm pretty sure. Anyway, I get what you're trying to say Zenigata but I'm wondering between the very end when Ed and Al are on the train and they kept switching back and forth between the two. If its 1921 on our side, then what time is it on ours? And going even further, apparently Edward has physically grown since time has passed but if the two worlds are "traveling" at the same time, then wouldn't Alphonse have grown as well? But he's still in a 10 year old's body as Edward is around 21 (give or take). I mean, he does grow up in the movie but what about the end of the series? Damn it all, I'm so confused. The manga does a MUCH better job with this part of the story than the anime it to a degree.
Peace.
StevieV019 03-22-2006 08:27 AM
It's got to be the same time on both sides of the gate. The gate doesnt act as a time machine. At the beginning of the series, the year is 1914, and then at around episode 8 or so, they reestablish the year as 1916 after going through Ed and Al's history and flashbacks. At the end of the series, the year is 1921...so, its been 4 years since Ed went through the gate a final time. (The series took place over a year's time...) I dont think Al is in a 10 year old's body...Im sorry, I think he looks right around 17-18 year old age.

In 1914, I believe Al was 10 and Ed was 12 or 13. Which means during the series (after the flashbacks), Al is 13 ish and Ed is 15. Five years have passed since Ed's final trip through the gate, so, we're looking at a late teens age for Al (around 18 or so) and early 20's age for Ed (20 or 21) at the end of the series.

Hope this helps...
Nine Kuze 03-22-2006 02:50 PM
quote:
It's got to be the same time on both sides of the gate.

You would think so but I'm just annoyed by the fact that Al looks soem much younger than Ed, when they're only a year apart from each other.

quote:
At the beginning of the series, the year is 1914, and then at around episode 8 or so, they reestablish the year as 1916 after going through Ed and Al's history and flashbacks.

Yeah, what they did was at the beginning of the series was show Ed and Al traveling in the present, do a flashback of their past and how they got to where they were, and went back to the present. This is how I have it, Stevie: It was 1911 when Ed and Al burned their house down and started to Central City. After that the rest of the series is in the year 1915, and then the series ended in 1921, six years after Edward and Alphonse sacrified each other for well... each other.

quote:
I dont think Al is in a 10 year old's body...Im sorry, I think he looks right around 17-18 year old age.

Come on, man. He looks the same when he tried to transmute his mother. They even say he was 10 years old. In the movie, he aged a lot (which is another part of this I don't get) but at the end of the series, he's definetly 10 years old. For instance, take a look at my avatar and sig. That's a picture (I don't think its official though. If it was, Al would have longer hair. Although even though his hair is short, its still Al) of Al when his older, like at the age of 20.

With the movie, Edward is 21 and Alphonse is 20 if I got my dates right about their births. But to me, the way the ending played out, it made it look like Edward was 21 and Alphonse was still 10! God dammit, it's probably just me. Frown

quote:
Hope this helps...

Actually, this does Stevie. Thanks a lot.
Peace.
Big Money 03-22-2006 03:41 PM
That's probably because Al had no body to age... He was just a soul in a metal suit, right? So if he got his body back, it'd be the same age as when he lost it...
Nine Kuze 03-22-2006 03:46 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Big Money
That's probably because Al had no body to age... He was just a soul in a metal suit, right? So if he got his body back, it'd be the same age as when he lost it...


Exactly, which means that at the end he would be 10 years old.

Actually, in the manga, his body aged while inside the Gate and I actually like that storyline a lot more.
Peace.
Shredder 03-22-2006 10:29 PM
Yeah, the age thing is a little confusing. At the end of the series, Al is 10. There's a few signs in the show that suggest that maybe only a few months at most have past since he turned human again. For instance, Rose's baby is still a baby (even though he's a little older) and Roy is still bandaged up and recovering from his injuries.

I'm still a little confused as to why Ed first appeared in 1916 London on the other side of the gate only to end up in 1921 Germany the second time. I really don't think that 5 years have passed for Ed by the end of the series, or that he's 21. We saw him still gathering information about rockets and technology to try to get back to his world and just now leaving on a trip. I think he'd be a lot further along in his plans/ideas/understanding of "our" world if he'd spent that much time there. At any rate, I'm pretty sure Ed is still supposed to be 16 at the end of the series.

The movie takes place two years later, making Ed 18 and Al 12.
StevieV019 03-23-2006 09:21 AM
Im sorry, but Ill have to disagree with you both, Nine, and Shredder...

I always thought Ed was at least 2 years older than Al, and that the start of the series (the road to Central for Ed's alchemy exam) showed Ed at 13 or 14 and Al 2 years younger at 11 or 12 (even 10, depending on birth months). And that the year was 1914. Ed was 10 when he tried to transmute his mother back to life, and the year was 1911.

The year at the end of the series, when Ed is with Hoehenheim is 1921...we know this, and this is 5-6 years past the events of throughout episodes 10-50. Im going ballpark here, so go with me, but the episodes after their initial flashback (when Ed and Al had their accident) took place over the course of one year...meaning, the Lior incident (from when they first arrived to when they ended up on both sides of the gate) lasted 12 months. Which makes both of them a year older than when they started to Central City. So, Ed would be around 14 or 15, with Al at 12 or 13. So, going back to above, add 5-6 years (from 1915-16 timeframe to 1921) and you get Ed being 20 or 21 and Al being 17 or 18. If you look at the picture of Ed and Al on the table behind Al when he's having his discussion with Izumi about learning alchemy, you can tell a distinct difference between Al in the picture and Al at the table. His limbs are longer, his face is bigger, he's much more mature. There is no way at all that he is 10 years old when he is having his discussion with Izumi.

Also, we only saw Ed in 1921; if Al is indeed younger than 17 or 18 when he is talking to Izumi, Ill take it to mean that we havent seen the 5-6 years elapse on Al's side of the gate, which puts him at 12 or 13.

I havent seen, nor know anything about the movie, Im going strictly by what episodes 1-51 contain.

EDIT: ---------------------------------------------------------

Go here: http://www.fullmetal-alchemist.com/anime-ep01.php

At the beginning of the series, Ed is 15, Al is 14...which makes, at the end of the series both of them 16 and 15 respectively. (before taking into consideration the 5-6 year lapse with Ed ending up in Munich in 1921)

Now, go here: http://www.fullmetal-alchemist.com/anime-ep51.php

It states that Al is in a 10 year old's body...ok...I can go with that...but we all know he acts much more mature than a 10 year old. We also know that Hoehenheim and Dante have been jumping bodies for close to 400 years, right? Well, then it would explain why Al would be in a 10 year old's body, but still come off as acting like someone who is older.

Hope this helps...