Does BIG-O's current lack of closure bother you?

I believe Season 2's finale was in and itself a reason to conclude it was meant to be definitive. In that case, whether or not we ever get Season 3 may be moot. In a way, not getting Season 3 can be seen as beneficial because the ending of Season 2 allows people to interpret the future of Paradigm City in their own ways.

If Season 3 is created...then our imaginations are voided and what we get for a Season 3 will have to be swallowed whole whether we like it or not. Just like the deaths of Tony and Michelle on 24 (which ended my involvement in watching the show...there are things you just don't touch.) Killing off those two characters in 24, for instance, simply in the name of drama and ratings misses the deeper reasons for letting such characters live for us to use in our imaginations...we can fantasize how their lives changed or use our imaginations to let them do other things. No...this was wiped out by trotting them out only to be blasted in a car fireball. 24 is dead. Period. Why? Because they couldn't follow what the CN did with Big O...they didn't allow the viewers to decide their futures.

By not getting a Season 3...the Season 2 ending allows us to enshrine Paradigm City in our imaginations so we can do what we want in the hologram project. Examples: Schwarzwald lives, Roger and Dorothy start dating, Dorothy becomes Dominus to Big Fau, etc. If Season 3 happens...all of these delicious imaginative scenarios die on the vine like being forced to eat broccolli and other green tasting ugly vegetables...we have to live with what the producers throw us.

Really? I believe the episodes from 17-26 to be some of the the best in the series, and 20-26 are just spectacular (Hydra, being the odd one out, but still pretty good).



This is all a matter of opinion of course.

Lack of closure? Huh...Big O doesnt really seem to have a lack of closure if you ask me. The city of Paradigm was saved by Roger (and Big O) and the citizens are all living...thus, they were ultimately saved from Alex Rosewater and Big Fau...
The ending may not be up to certain people's standards, but when it comes down to it, the creators are the one's who found the ending to be fitting. If you dont like...well, tough.

I dont understand the letter writing campaign and everyone's obsession over getting a third season. Anything that takes up that much time and thought over something so insignificant when it comes to life in general is certainly an unhealthy endeavor. Plus, it's not going to do any good. Writing letters and sending tomatoes is pointless. The powers that be have already decided...No more Big O. So why would anyone want to waste their time waving a banner for a cause that will never come to fruition? It really sounds to me like people are grasping to hold onto the past rather than moving forward with life...but we'll leave that for the psychologists...

For those that mention that people dont know what Big O is...I kinda beg to differ on that one. A lot of people know about Big O...and why? Because of Adult Swim and Cartoon Network...

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Almost nobody cares about giving the series "a proper ending". It's really not that big of a deal to people. You all have to live with that.

Going along with what I first said...this pretty much sums up people's opinion of the show. They all have something better to do with themselves than protest or care about its finale...

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Do not let your emotions get in the way of a good night's sleep just because you're shocked that Tony Almeida was killed. Whoops.

Priceless...

I think we all need to "come to terms" with Big O's fate: its finished.

Hmmm Well its hard to say in so many ways I would love a season 3 especially if they did one of those ending extra fan service epsoides. But I am afraid if CN does produce a season 3 that it will turn into a sappy Soap Oprea. Whihc I might not be too sad about just to see the characters again, so I guess I am torn.

-Beth

Just a few clarifying comments...

1.) Traditional cel-animation as we know it is utterly dead. It's sad, but true. Therefore, whine all you want (as I did for a time), but Season 2's digital cels (WHICH ARE STILL DRAWN BY HUMANS!) are, by and large, the best you can get. Be thankful it wasn't model-CG!!! In the end, while it wasn't as good as Season 1's cel-painted art, Season 2 was certainly no slouch--especially by today's standards. It got the job done.

2.) Big-O HAD to go the way of Season 2. Watching 'Enemy is Another Big' and 'R-D,' the tone got much darker and the plot far more involved and focused. This is what is called plot development and natural story progression. What good is a creative world if it stays largely stagnant forever without evolving...it'll get redundant like certain classic American comic series. You know right from Roger's first monologue that this world is complex and deep...it's not meant to be shallow and repeative.

3.) The series technically wasn't planned for 26 episodes when it stopped at 13. Konaka and the Big-O team were forced to dramatically alter the script a few episodes in because Sunrise said no way are they giving them 26 episodes. So, a lot of the episodes made in Season 1 were put in there to make people interested enough in the underlying story to support a Season 2. Season 2 then became a reaction to the dramatic alterations made during Season 1, and thus had to largely play catch-up. In essence, 26 episodes weren't enough anymore once Season 1 had been changed around. It seems the way the last couple episodes of Season 2 went, it was a similar deal. But CN wouldn't play ball with Konaka.

4.) I would argue that Season 2 had some of the series standout fights. The Three Foreign Megadei, Big Duo Inferno, and Big Fau were some of the best. Season 1 really only had Big Duo's fight in terms of great fights.

5.) Big-O is stronger as a whole from Season 2. It's a more complete story, but it's not yet finished. If you've seen RahXephon, you know BIG-O could be better if it played out to its ultimate conclusion.

6.) Yes, Trigun is a good series. Overall, it probably is better than BIG-O because Big-O is incomplete. Tough call.

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Originally posted by Cerpin Taxt quote: Originally posted by Nine XXVI quote: Am I BOTHERED by it? No. Do I stay up at nights worrying about it? No. You're not? Because I've lost so many nights wondering about Act 26. The Big O, like pretty much everything on TV, is a work of fiction. It's also animated, to boot, meaning it does not use real live actors to portray the story and events of the show. If, for some godforsaken reason, you become emotionally distraught and distressed by a work of fiction (blurring the reality of what is real and what is not), and lose sleep over such a thing, you need to examine yourself thoroughly. Sure, there have been many movies and shows that left me thinking, but I put the real world in front of them as my number one priority. I can tell between what is real and what is not. Do not let your emotions get in the way of a good night's sleep just because you're shocked that Tony Almeida was killed. Whoops. And, for the record, I'm starting to think that Trigun is as good, if not better, than The Big O.

Um, dude, if you couldn't tell I was totally kidding about that remark. Don't get me wrong, I'm a pretty f***ed to one degree or another but I haven't lost any sleep because of Big O. Nice to hear that you care though!

Also, I too have been watching Trigun and its a very good series so far. Hell no its not better than Big O (in my own opinon anyway) but its still up there nonetheless.

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It was what, 2 and a half years ago? Yeah. Let it go. I don't think sending masses of letters is really going to accomplish very much.

That's why I stay away from all the get support of Season 3 now stuff because I know it won't do jack. It's a noble effort and its cool to see people want more Big O, but seriously, this is (and it hasn't so far) not going to do anything.

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Personally, as I rewatch the series R-D seems like a better ending

R-D was a kickass episode and actually, yeah the series could have ended there and everything would have been right in the world. But I still like Act 26 regardless.

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Yes, I was dissatisfied with the ending. And I was dissatisfied with Season 2 as a whole. It barely answered anything, raised more questions, and as many have said, the animation quality was poorer. The more I think about it, the less I like it.

Then, stop thinking about it. I'm kiddin' but Season 2 of Big O was a rather disappointing only because Season 1 was one of the best seasons of anime that we'll ever have. But like someone else said (I think Spoderman, what up!), Season 1 had too many episodes that didn't focus on the main plot of the story. It's not really a bad thing because fillers such as Electric City, Bring Back My Ghost, Missing Cat, and Daemonseed were as badass as you know what (I hate the Amadeus episode though) but I just like how Season 2 focused more on the storyline of Big O.

Just by itself, Season 2 is pretty damn good but compared to Season 1, it looks (literally) like crap.
Peace.

Good point, Nine. My thoughts exactly.

I am certain there are many of you who liked the second season, I'm just not one of them. I am an old-fashioned person; I am drawn to old-fashioned things. Season 2 struck me as too modern, in many ways, and I didn't care as much as I should have.

Frankly, once I've gotten Season 1 on DVD, I may never speak of Big O again.

Concerning the style of animation, which we have already discussed more than need be;

Yes... cels are dead. But not because they are inferior; simply because it is "outdated" and new methods arose. Of course, anime is still drawn by hand, but I can already see that trend changing with the advent of such films as Kakurenbo and others. Gradually, CGI effects and digital up-touching will take away from anime, as they have already done, and that saddens me tremendously.

That is one of the reasons why I typically don't invest in anime made after 1999. Again, I am old-fashioned. I enjoy the warm, familiar feel of painted cels in elaborate motion. I make more of that one aspect than anything, it seems; I have been known to watch most anything if it be animated in cels.

Of course, these are but my feelings, though I stand behind them strongly. I am sure there are those who welcome change. But I am not one of them.

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1.) Traditional cel-animation as we know it is utterly dead. It's sad, but true. Therefore, whine all you want (as I did for a time), but Season 2's digital cels (WHICH ARE STILL DRAWN BY HUMANS!) are, by and large, the best you can get. Be thankful it wasn't model-CG!!! In the end, while it wasn't as good as Season 1's cel-painted art, Season 2 was certainly no slouch--especially by today's standards. It got the job done.

Even so, season two still looks like sh*t.

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3.) The series technically wasn't planned for 26 episodes when it stopped at 13.

Big O was originally planned for two season, 26 episodes. But since the ratings in Japan were so poor they had to cut down to 13 episodes.

Also, I don't understand why you guys hated the formula of season 1. The show is EPISODIC. The series is heavily influenced off old 60's/70's anime, which were, mainly episodic.

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And, for the record, I'm starting to think that Trigun is as good, if not better, than The Big O.

I must agree CT. The thing that makes Trigun so good is the well thought out story, not saying Big O doesn't but overall Trigun has a deeper story IMO, not to mention charecter's that are believeable. so yeah Trigun forever.

I'm confused by this talk of lack of closure, there's closure, just not the kind we where hoping for. And the wheel keeps turning.

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Originally posted by Umino Even so, season two still looks like sh*t.

Agreed. Was there ever a time when Dastun's head was the right size and shape?

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Also, I don't understand why you guys hated the formula of season 1. The show is EPISODIC. The series is heavily influenced off old 60's/70's anime, which were, mainly episodic.

Here, here. Continous series get boring real quick. I think Season 2 would have been better if it had continued the "formula" of Season 1 and interspersed episodes completely unrelated to the plot with more relevant episodes. And if those "relevant" episodes actually provided us something conclusive.

Cowboy Bebop is like that. And Cowboy Bebop is good. And no we don't want to hear, "bebop is overrated" again. It's a good, solid anime, no question.

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Here, here. Continous series get boring real quick. I think Season 2 would have been better if it had continued the "formula" of Season 1 and interspersed episodes completely unrelated to the plot with more relevant episodes. And if those "relevant" episodes actually provided us something conclusive.

Excellent point. I prefer the episodic feel of season 1 over two. season 2 felt like one huge episode.

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Was there ever a time when Dastun's head was the right size and shape?

kinda like Roger having pointy elf ears, and Dorothy looking normal one episode, and then looking like a stick figure the next, that was quite annoying.

*About hand-painted cels: Yes, they are much better 9 times out of ten, I definitely agree. BIG-O Really does showcase that fact (though Gundam Wing compared to the modern Gundam SEED shows that even more. lol. Gundam has essentially died). However, BIG-O II didn't devolve into bubbly, cookie-cutter and/or chibi art like most anime these days (post 1999/2000). It kept away from the unpleasant CGI, too!

The anime industry for fans of the original cel stuff, like myself and Randolph (there's not too many these days who even care), is getting harder to follow. The dramatic increase in CGI is HIGHLY disturbing. I've come to accept it in limited amounts for the sake of some good stories (Last Exile, Yukikaze, Zoids Chaotic Century/Guardian Force, Witch Hunter Robin), but the more CGI comes in, the harder it is to enjoy anime. If CGI usurps cels, the anime art-form will be all but dead. STUDIO BONES (Wolf's Rain, FullMetal Alchemist, RahXephon, Cowboy Bebop: The Movie) is probably, overall, the best studio for staying true to the anime art-form right now).

*EPISODIC episodes are ok, so long as they don't take away from the series' tone and eventually tie back to a bigger story. Almost none of Season 1's episodic episodes were pointless--they were actually related to a bigger plot starting to unfold. It was inevitable that we get to the main thrust of the story in Season 2.

I HATED that Cowboy Bebop was sooo beautiful-looking and yet had so little plot or episode connections. Mushroom Samba?! What the heck! It's insulting itself and all the effort going into it. Almost all the best episodes were those that dealt with the main storyline of Spike and Vicious. Samurai Champloo suffered from the same problem. If I wanted episodic I'd go watch Star Trek or read some Spider-man. I think those things are too stale, though--they repeat and rinse. I LOVE big plots that harken back to the storytelling skills of old and utilize the full potential of art. EVERY story needs an ending, or it gets cheap.

Romps are really cool and fun (like Lupin III and MEZZO: Danger Service Agency TV), but there's a time and place for it, and for something with as much potential as BIG-O, epicness is a must in my mind. I mean, you can enjoy it on two levels, then, making it twice as great. Trigun's like that, which is why it's so good in the anime pantheon of greats.

On that note, I'd say that I probably think TRIGUN and BIG-O are in a similar ballpark, but they're so different, it comes down to preference.

To conclude my point: While FullMetal Alchemist has meandered greatly in its episodic nature at points, it has really pulled together with its big plot into something impressive, which is why this show is worthy of praise. I don't have a final verdict on it, but its big plot has saved its seemingly episodic nature. It would have been mostly mediocre if it had remained episodic.

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Originally posted by Paradigm Dog However, BIG-O II didn't devolve into bubbly, cookie-cutter and/or chibi art like most anime these days (post 1999/2000).

Three words: The Greatest Villian.

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Originally posted by Umino quote: Originally posted by Paradigm Dog However, BIG-O II didn't devolve into bubbly, cookie-cutter and/or chibi art like most anime these days (post 1999/2000). Three words: The Greatest Villian.

Now now. That was a parody of all other anime like that. Hence the O-Thunder pwn.

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Originally posted by Umino quote: Originally posted by Paradigm Dog However, BIG-O II didn't devolve into bubbly, cookie-cutter and/or chibi art like most anime these days (post 1999/2000). Three words: The Greatest Villian.

One word: PWNAGE!!1

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Originally posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox Now now. That was a parody of all other anime like that. Hence the O-Thunder pwn.

It still feels akward, and insanely out of place in Big O. It should have never been.

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Originally posted by Umino quote: Originally posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox Now now. That was a parody of all other anime like that. Hence the O-Thunder pwn. It still feels akward, and insanely out of place in Big O. It should have never been.

It isn't out of place. I'll give you "akward", but its there to give Beck a bit more character. Plus quite simply demonstrates "This isn't your kid's show."

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Originally posted by Paradigm Dog I HATED that Cowboy Bebop was sooo beautiful-looking and yet had so little plot or episode connections. Mushroom Samba?! What the heck! It's insulting itself and all the effort going into it. Almost all the best episodes were those that dealt with the main storyline of Spike and Vicious. Samurai Champloo suffered from the same problem. If I wanted episodic I'd go watch Star Trek or read some Spider-man. I think those things are too stale, though--they repeat and rinse. I LOVE big plots that harken back to the storytelling skills of old and utilize the full potential of art. EVERY story needs an ending, or it gets cheap.

Funny how you hated one of my favorite episodes (and one of the fans'; it made it to the Best Sessions DVD). The thing about Bebop is that it wasn't about the main story between Spike and Vicious. Several of the episodes' sole purpose was to show the characters and their universe. That's what I would have liked to see in Season 2. Roger and the main storyline can only hold one's interest for so long and only be explained so much (which it wasn't in the first place, in my opinion).

I would have liked to see more episodes about Roger's job as a Negotiator. More episodes involving other citizens of Paradigm. I think Season 2 just tried to cram too much plot into 13 episodes. Maybe it tried TOO hard to bring closure to the series, when in reality it left more plot lines untied.

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Originally posted by Mugiwara Luffy I would have liked to see more episodes about Roger's job as a Negotiator. More episodes involving other citizens of Paradigm. I think Season 2 just tried to cram too much plot into 13 episodes. Maybe it tried TOO hard to bring closure to the series, when in reality it left more plot lines untied.

I think that's the best way I've heard it put. Cos that's how I feel about SeasonII in retrospect, too many ideas and not enough time.

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Originally posted by Mugiwara Luffy quote: Originally posted by Paradigm Dog I HATED that Cowboy Bebop was sooo beautiful-looking and yet had so little plot or episode connections. Mushroom Samba?! What the heck! It's insulting itself and all the effort going into it. Almost all the best episodes were those that dealt with the main storyline of Spike and Vicious. Samurai Champloo suffered from the same problem. If I wanted episodic I'd go watch Star Trek or read some Spider-man. I think those things are too stale, though--they repeat and rinse. I LOVE big plots that harken back to the storytelling skills of old and utilize the full potential of art. EVERY story needs an ending, or it gets cheap. Funny how you hated one of my favorite episodes (and one of the fans'; it made it to the Best Sessions DVD). The thing about Bebop is that it wasn't about the main story between Spike and Vicious. Several of the episodes' sole purpose was to show the characters and their universe. That's what I would have liked to see in Season 2. Roger and the main storyline can only hold one's interest for so long and only be explained so much (which it wasn't in the first place, in my opinion). I would have liked to see more episodes about Roger's job as a Negotiator. More episodes involving other citizens of Paradigm. I think Season 2 just tried to cram too much plot into 13 episodes. Maybe it tried TOO hard to bring closure to the series, when in reality it left more plot lines untied.

Word.

About everything from Bebop to Big O...

Cowboy Bebop's story was totally connected, but the episodic nature of the series threw the path of the characters all over the place. In the end, though, the whole story blended well, and there WAS a plot that was interconnected.

The same can be said for Big O...the second season needed about 2 or 3 less connected episodes, and more stand alone episodes. As for the art...not a big deal to me...