Act 3:Electric City

I'm not offended. I just disagree. I happen to like the same episodes
everyone else seems to hate. If that makes me Odd Man Out,
I can live with that.

I have many problems with Day of the Advent. Some episodes of Big O tend to stretch the laws of physics, but Day of the Advent completely ignores them. I'm a physics major, so this sort of thing bothers me.

When I see a gigantic falling object crashing into earth from orbit, I know that it has several properties, such as mass, ever-increasing velocity, and a constant acceleration of 9.81 m/s^2...

Recall the equation for Kinetic energy is 1/2(mass)(velocity^2).

Think about that for a second. The Earth's atmosphere extends about 1000 km upwards (http://www.rcn27.dial.pipex.com/cloudsrus/atmosphere.html), So something in freefall, weighing 1000N, with a cross-sectional area of 5 sq meters, would reach a terminal velocity of 22.68 m/s (calculated here http://exploration.grc.nasa.gov/education/rocket/termvr.html)

The kinetic energy released in the impact would be: 26215.49 Joules.


1000N = 101.93 kg

Packs quite a punch, doesn't it; considering its close to the weight of a large human, and bit bigger surface wise.

HOWEVER.... The object in Day of the Advent did not enter the atmosphere from free-fall... it entered on an angle, and therefore would have been falling for a longer time. Considering it was oblong and slightly aerodynamic, its terminal velocity would be much bigger. I don't have exact measurements, but if I had to guess, it was probably coming in at 50-70 m/s. For an object of its size (It was, after all, about the combined size of Big O's arms), its impact with the ground would have been immense. Not to mention that its momentum component (mass * acceleration) would have been behind it the entire way.


Now, given all this information, Big O simply could not have destroyed the falling object. Big O's piston punches would have to be immeasurably powerful in order to accomplish this feat. There would have to be enough force in just one of those punches to not only equal, but overpower the entire kinetic energy AND momentum behind that satellite. Sorry, I just don't see that happening... ever.

Also, this is completely ignoring the notion that the impact of the satellite hitting Big O's fist would have been THE SAME AS IF IT HIT THE GROUND. IT STILL SLAMMED INTO SOMETHING, DIDN'T IT?

The shockwave would have still taken out most of the city. And yet, the buildings and people partying at Big O's feet are completely unscathed...

There's also the issue of if Big O can equal the force of a gigantic falling satellite FROM ORBIT, why didn't it destroy Bonaparte with a single punch? What about when Big Duo Inferno punched out Big O... are you telling me that Big Duo Inferno had more force behind it than a gigantic satellite falling from orbit? Don't even get me started about Big Fau's force field...


Apart from the blatant and utter abuse of physics in this episode, the plot is also pretty lacking :/

It could have been done SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much better.

Daemonseed was a wonderful episode. I actually laugh when Dorothy has her little exchange with the tie saleswoman. There's a bit of funny ENGRISH on the elevator plaque, followed by even more character development as Roger offends Dorothy. Besides, the whole fact that Dorothy couldn't ride the elevator showed such amazing attention to detail. There was the moment when Norman rode through the tailor's which was both funny AND badass. The fight scene with the plant was smooth and refreshing...

...and other moments, showing the state of Paradigm's Memories and Rosewater's attitude. Daemonseed hits all the right notes! Even if you prefer plot over development, you've gotta admit that Daemonseed just has SO MUCH development, it deserves a place among the better episodes.



Not to make this a Daemonseed discussion...

I wish the writers tied up the loose ends in Electric City. You've got this beautiful, gleaming, golden metropolis... then what? What ever happened to the inhabitants? What happened to the golden glow over time? I think that, if Season III ever comes out, an episode should bring the characters back near Electric City.

quote:

Besides, the whole fact that Dorothy couldn't ride the elevator showed such amazing attention to detail.

If Dorothy weighs that much, how is Roger able to lift her?

More importantly, how does his watch hook-line manage to support them both (See Act 2)?

What you see as attention to detail, I view as an inconsistency.

Now, don't take this personally. But I refuse to apply any kind
of logic or physics to a cartoon.

That, to me, is like refusing to enjoy watching Tom and Jerry
because it is physically impossible for a pitbull to fit into a mailbox,
or not wanting to watch Bugs Bunny because there is no way
he can produce lift by spinning his ears, or even spin them
that quickly in the first place.

I take what I watch on TV as entertainment, a form of escapism.
Adhering to the laws of the Earth is the opposite of the point.

quote:

Originally posted by Spoderman I have many problems with Day of the Advent. *snip*

I agree with you on that point wholeheartedly, though I note that Big O also hit the incoming "angel" with a sustained Chromebuster shot, which probably took out a fair chunk of velocity. Not enough to make the resulting impact survivable, but still something.

Of course, if Big O followed the rules of physics at all every Megadeus in the show would be unable to support the weight of their own arms and be much more susceptible to falling over than we've seen. Not to mention that Big O's size changes as the scene requires.

Let's make another point about that.
Let me see how many problems I can find in Big O.

1. The Final Stage cannon consumes almost all of the chest cavity.
There can't be anything else in there, unless it folds up very
tightly indeed.

2. The left leg has some kind of tunnel that lets Roger drive his
car into it, and be elevated to the cockpit. The whole leg,
and indeed half of the body, would need a man-sized pipeline
to do that. That renders most of that hollow.

3. The arms are filled by not only the giant pistons--
which if solid, would weigh more than the rest of the body combined--
but also the O-Thunder cannons, which are not exactly miniature.

4. The hips contain chain-anchors. In act 14 we see these all fired
simultaneously, and enough chain is unraveled that, if piled up,
would make a mass at least half as big as Big O itself.

5. The Plasma Shield weapon emerges from the shoulders,
apparently originating from generators of some kind. These
seem to fill the shoulders completely.

6. Taking into account all of this, where in the hell are the engines
that move the thing? There's no space left for any kind of engines,
motors, mechanisms or squat. It's all guns and dense metal.

This is not even taking into account the problems of balance, weight
and the storage of ammunition. That's a lot of inconsistency.

Now, does this make it a bad show? Does it make it boring, or
stupid or unwatchable? No. It's a good show, not because of anything
to do with how things get done, but what is being done.
The rules of the universe can be bent on a whim if it can make an
interesting story possible.

All of those are valid inconsistencies of the show (The arm pistons, however, are not solid. They are pneumatic cannons. We know they expel air when fired, so they must suck in air when primed. They have to be hollow) Some are more easily ignored than others, but others present huge holes. I love Big O's story and the action in the episodes, but some things you just look at and go "No way did that just happen..."

Day of the Advent fails not only for the satellite punching, but for other reasons as well. When Roger and Angel infiltrate that facility, they have to cross the bay using a cable...

However, when they're surrounded by armed henchmen (whose aim is predictably horrible) Roger sends a call out to his car, which blows a hole in the ceiling of the complex. Then, he sends out a grappling hook from his watch HUNDREDS OF FEET UPWARDS (bear in mind, Roger looks to be about 50 feet below the three foreign megadei, which are suspended from the same ceiling) THAT LATCHES ONTO THE BUMPER OF HIS CAR...

Not only is this an impossible shot, but how the hell does the watch contain that much damn cable and have the strength to reel in Angel and Roger that far of a distance?

Moreover, if I'm a henchmen intent on killing the target, and for the sake of argument, lets say the Griffon can blow a hole in the ceiling and Roger's magic watch makes the shot, I've still got at least 10-15 seconds to shoot Roger, who is three feet away from me.

FURTHERMORE, when Roger and Angel escape, it isn't bad enough that they just did something completely and utterly impossible, BUT THE GRIFFON DROPS SOME BOMBS DOWN THE HOLE IT MADE IN THE CEILING. WTF? And where the hell did the Griffon come from anyway? Didn't Roger and Dorothy have to get to the complex by riding a damn cable?


But that's enough about Day of the Advent. Its just not as good as the other episodes.

quote:

I agree with you on that point wholeheartedly, though I note that Big O also hit the incoming "angel" with a sustained Chromebuster shot, which probably took out a fair chunk of velocity. Not enough to make the resulting impact survivable, but still something.

It's interesting that you bring this up. The chromebuster had some effect on the object, as part of it burned off, and presumably the object was slowed in some way.

But the fact that the object still collided with Big O AFTER being hit by the Chromebuster makes you wonder, would it have overshot the city if Big O had not fired a Chromebuster at it? Without a doubt, the Chromebuster shot is the reason that Big O was able to punch it in the first place.

We know this because Big O altered the object's path using the Chromebuster and still punched it.

Actually... the point I was trying to make is, never ever say "No way did that just happen". Instead, say, "THAT'S AWESOME".
Rather than questioning how they did something that seems impossible, I just go with it and enjoy the spectacle. It's like watching a fancy magic trick; doing something you know couldn't happen for real, and getting a kick out of it.

As for Roger's watch... maybe the cable is elastic? Who cares.
It looks cool, so they can do it.
And the Griffon is equipped with a ton of weapons. You'd know that
if you'd watched the entire show.

It doesn't make any difference to me if something can't be done.
They did it, it looks cool, and it's fun to watch. I can't find any valid reason to argue with that.

quote:

Originally posted by Spoderman quote: Besides, the whole fact that Dorothy couldn't ride the elevator showed such amazing attention to detail. If Dorothy weighs that much, how is Roger able to lift her? More importantly, how does his watch hook-line manage to support them both (See Act 2)? What you see as attention to detail, I view as an inconsistency.

Hmm... ever heard of "suspension of disbelief?"

Randolf knows what he's talkin' about, too. Most oversights are intentional.

So are most of the insights, like Dorothy being too heavy for the elevator, and for that reason I'm impressed.

quote:

Originally posted by Randolph Actually... the point I was trying to make is, never ever say "No way did that just happen". Instead, say, "THAT'S AWESOME". Rather than questioning how they did something that seems impossible, I just go with it and enjoy the spectacle. It's like watching a fancy magic trick; doing something you know couldn't happen for real, and getting a kick out of it.

One problem is that there's not much of a dividing line between "that's awesome" and "that's stupid" -- and it's easy to ruin the story for your audience by doing something that makes them go, "That's stupid."

Another problem is that Big O sets itself up as a mystery, and with mysteries, all clues are important, whether big or small. If you write a mystery, you need to be careful about your clues, because mysteries ask the reader/viewer to try to figure out the answer from the clues you've dropped. If you're sloppy about your clues, you annoy your audience.

I think that Big O may appeal to an older, more jaded, and more analytical audience than the creators realized. As far as I'm concerned, for instance, it's always tedious when a giant robot bursts through a building, and it's almost as bad when a giant robot turns out to have a bigger weapon in this episode than it had in the last episode. It's just too old and tired.

I mean no offense by this, ACT. But perhaps it is you who is old and tired.

I don't watch much anime, or play many games.
When I do see something grandiose and somewhat extreme, it entertains me. When I see a robot come out with a positively impossibly huge laser blast, or a swarm of missiles that wouldn't fit in a stadium,
I find that to be, as I have stated, "awesome".
Maybe it's because I'm young. Maybe it's because I don't get out much.
And maybe it seems old to you because you've seen it too much.
But it seems fresh to me, doesn't bother me, and I've got no cause to complain.

But, I cannot speak for you. I leave you free to think as you please.
If you find it old and tired, that's fine by me.

Well, being the 3rd act in teh series, and establishing that there are outsiders to Paradigm city, and weirdness out in the wildnerness (revisited later with mad scientiest testing on what remains of the animal kingdom), it does a good job of introducing that weirness and introducing certain elements (fallen angel for example) and keeping the megadeuce out of the picture for a while putting Roger in the role of investigator rather than negotiator.

That's a good argument paradoxx. I'm still not a fan of the episode, but now I see why other people are.

Just one nitpick: the genetics testing you're talking about most likely takes place in the Museum of Natural History in Manhattan. That ain't no backwater locale! It would've taken place in the ruins outside the domes.