Comic Industry Going Mad? (somewhat graphic)

R.Smith 12-26-2005 01:07 AM
"Ripped" from Angelic__Knight's Xanga Site (why should I type something up that's already been?).

quote:
Take a good read in a magazine or on a discussion forum right now and you'll likely see some convtroversial talk regarding what's happening with DC and Marvel in the comic book world. The two comic supergiants never fully recovered from the near-lethal market drop during the 90's, and given recent decisions, it looks like they're getting outright desperate. While superheros are taking the silver screen by storm, fewer and fewer youngsters are checking out the comic books stands.

Marvel's marketing goal as of late has been to cater to an older audience. They're pulling some shock factor stunts to try to get their attention and reel them in, but is their latest tactic going too far? I present to you Exhibit A:


Proof that the Hulk should never become a chiropractor.


"Hey, wow, I can see my spleen!"

That's right kids, Wolvie gets ripped in half in one of the latest issues in the Ultimate X-Men series. One of my all-time favorite X-Men whom I've followed adoringly since I was a kid just got snapped like a bloody twig. I might be able to deal with this if it were a one-time kinda thing, but oh contrare --


"My Spidey sense is ting -- Oh wait, that's my empty eye socket..."

That's right folks, Spidey just got HIS EYE RIPPED OUT. Not only ripped out, but eaten. Good ol' Peter Parker, whom we've related to all too well as we've watched him secretly admire Mary Jane, get dumped, bullied, picked on, ridiculed, beat up, and grow from puny nerd to superhero...only to get his eye plucked out from its socket?!

Now don't get me wrong here folks, I'm not one of those yahoos that thinks violence in comics is evil. In fact, all should know by now that Frank Castle a.k.a. the Punisher is at the top of my list of favorite heroes --


Who needs superpowers when you have a lot of really big GUNS?

But violence is part of the Punisher way, and you betcha I'm looking to see some bloody, gorey justice dished out anytime I pick up a Punisher issue.

However, when you take that level of violence and insert it into something like the X-Men or Spiderman, it's just way out of place. Spidey's always been the model fun-for-the-whole family hero, and having his friggin' eye plucked out is right up there with changing Superman's colors to black. You just don't do it. After all, I don't want every single series to be dark, angsty, and overly violent. If I'm in the mood for that, I pick up Punisher issues. If not, I read Spiderman, X-Men, or Daredevil for something a little more down to earth.

Well, not anymore, since Wolverine can now see his own spinal cord.

Is Marvel desperate to climb back up to its glory days, taking a last ditch effort to get someone's attention, or have comic book readers really become that obsessed with the angsty, dark superhero story that they've forgotten some of the lighter, brighter heroes we've grown up with?


I had better never, ever see a single organ in this guy's body exposed, or I'm gonna be REALLY ticked!

But at least there's one comic line that's staying true to its roots as its reborn...


IDW Publishing will likely be gaining a new customer very soon!




I learned about the Spidey thing while reading Jason Publick's LJ (Venture Bros. creator), and googled it and was appalled by what I found on this site.

I haven't really been following the comicbook world lately, but I can't believe that the comics are going this far. To me, this is too far.
David Ryder 12-26-2005 01:32 AM
very interesting. I had no idea that the comic complanies where getting this desperate. This level of violence gives even berserk a run it's money.
Travis Bickle 12-26-2005 01:35 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Gaddes
very interesting. I had no idea that the comic complanies where getting this desperate. This level of violence gives even berserk a run it's money.


That, and they made Colossus gay. That was a major kick in the nuts.
R.Smith 12-26-2005 01:45 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Gonzo
quote:
Originally posted by Gaddes
very interesting. I had no idea that the comic complanies where getting this desperate. This level of violence gives even berserk a run it's money.


That, and they made Colossus gay. That was a major kick in the nuts.


WHAT?!Shocked

Jeez....... makes me glad I haven't been in the "loop". Sweatdrop
Sharpshooter005 12-26-2005 01:58 AM
quote:
or have comic book readers really become that obsessed with the angsty, dark superhero story that they've forgotten some of the lighter, brighter heroes we've grown up with?


You think thats bad? Go find...I think it was called "carnage unleashed."

The one where he's interrogated in his cell. Thats one of the stupidest, most shlocky things I've ever read. And for a comic book thats saying alot. This is basically all it was.

Carnage>I'M CRAZY AND MAD AT THE WORLD AND CRAZY, DID I MENTION I'M CRAZY? I'M CRAZY AS HELL!

*montage of panels depicting this really over the top level of "insane" or "evil" images. To the point where its funny*

Carnage>CRAZY CRAZY CRAZY!!!

*More of the same. Yes how delightful, he's a kid and he's holding intestines*

Carnage>Oh again...I'm crazy. NOW I'LL MAKE SOME BALD GUY STRIP NAKED AND TRY TO EAT A GUARDS FACE!!!

Thats literally it. Thats the entire thing, but a foil looking cover on this post, print it out, and you might as well own the original comic. Furthermore this predates any of these changes by...a number of years. So this isn't really all that new or surprising.

Also pretty much every example used is a franchise thats been around for...over 30 years in a couple of cases. After a while you can't help but just start looking at various extremes, since everything else has been done. Usually three or more times.

quote:
Good ol' Peter Parker, whom we've related to all too well as we've watched him secretly admire Mary Jane, get dumped, bullied, picked on, ridiculed, beat up, and grow from puny nerd to superhero...only to get his eye plucked out from its socket?!


This is better than when he was cloned...but then the clone turns out to have amnesia or something, and takes Parker's identity...but then it turns out he's not a clone. Except he is. Except he's not...and then he's written out so there can be this big deal about "the return of spider-man!"

..Somebody has to remember that one. The scarlet spider thing or whatever. I remember this was around the time that "spiderman 2099" or whatever came out. And I just stopped even TRYING to follow any of this. All I remember about the 2099 one is there were flying cars, and "future venom" was one of the stupidest looking things ever.

quote:
And, for god sakes, Captain America is the worst charachter next to Man-Thing.


I'd have to put Superman up there also.

When a characters only weakness is a green alien rock, it just somehow bores me. Also flying...ever since I was a kid, I thought flying was sort of a lame power.

quote:
There's only so much you can do.


But god forbid you try and change things...AT ALL. Or else you're "raping someones childhood".
Travis Bickle 12-26-2005 02:01 AM
There's only so much you can do. Charachters can only die a certain amount of times until it gets old (f*** you, HAND). Superheros can only do so much until they become stale. And, for god sakes, Captain America is the worst charachter next to Man-Thing.

Marvel should call it quits soon. Same with Nintendo and Pokemon, Mario and Kirby.
Randolph 12-26-2005 02:22 AM
I've never been much of a comic fan myself, and seeing this mess
gives me no inclination to change.

Frankly, the blood and gore is not even the issue-- we've all seen our
fair share of flayed organs and splintered bones (Fist of the North Star saw to that)-- it's that gore is entirely out of context in such series which never needed them before.

That, and seeing Wolverine smelling his own legs from four miles away is
downright creepy, no matter what context it's in.
Pygmalion 12-26-2005 09:16 AM
It does seem a situation ripe for another situation like Seduction of the Innocent. I've never found a bad story to be improved by graphic violence.

Pygmalion
Sephiroth 12-26-2005 04:32 PM
The mainstream comic industry has been going down hill for years. Ever since Marvel started running 20 different X-Men comics, and came up with the overly complicated cloning storyline for the "Scarlet Spider", it has really seemed like comics have begun to lose the luster. Marvel however is not alone, the Superman comics have become more and more insipid as time goes by. The paragon of the industry, has become easily one of the most lackluster comics available. It's not suprising at all that Marvel would attempt to capture an older audience with violence.

Graphic novels like Sin City and non-mainstream works like Johnny the Homicidal Maniac, have had graphic violence for quite some time, and many of them are widely considered to be great works. It really should come as no shock that Marvel is trying to keep up with the widley growing non-mainstream works. However it is just not working, monthly, issue-based comics simply cannot keep up, as they become far too conviluted for their own good. Marvel and DC need to understand, that comics should not go on for 1000's of issues, they simply cannot keep things original and entertaining for that long. Comics need to end before they go on too long, and Marvel and DC cannot face that. People are just bored with those comics now, and they are trying to spice things up to keep them interested.
Travis Bickle 12-26-2005 04:46 PM
What are you talking about? Sin City and JtHM are mainstream. When you're widely recognized by a wide audience and your product is in magazines, not to mention being published by major publishers (Dark Horse Comics and some other major company that can't really come to mind).

According to Wikipedia, Mainstream is:

* something that is not out of the ordinary or unusual;
* something that is familiar to the masses;
* something that belongs to an identifiable genre, such as detective fiction, horror, fantasy, or science fiction.

2 out of 3 ain't bad.
Wazpy 12-26-2005 06:15 PM
I'm all for the Wolverine getting ripped in half thing. That looks like an interesting story, and it's obvious he'll get his legs back.

As for the others.... that's unneeded. The problem with most of Marvel's comics is that they try to hard to be realistic. That means graphic violence and emo kids, I guess.
Sharpshooter005 12-26-2005 06:17 PM
quote:
That means graphic violence and emo kids, I guess.


Graphic violence...being perpetrated against emo kids?

Because I KNOW theres a market for that one.

quote:
Comics need to end before they go on too long


Agreed...well...print comics, anyway.

If that guy who makes "dinosaur comics" dosen't stop until he falls over dead, I probably won't complain.
Wazpy 12-26-2005 07:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Sharpshooter005
quote:
That means graphic violence and emo kids, I guess.


Graphic violence...being perpetrated against emo kids?

Because I KNOW theres a market for that one.


I'm afraid not. They're kept pretty seperate. Unfortunatly the preteen drama seems a lot more common than the violence too. Read any of the Marvel "Ultimate" comics for the worst of it. Everything in there has to be "real." So who your favorite X-men member is sleeping with is of the highest importance.
pen1300 12-30-2005 07:56 PM
Johnny the Homicidal Maniac is not mainstream [yet].

Sin City is (if the library has it, it's popular enough that the library would pay whatever it costs to get it) and the "masses" know what Sin City is...thanks to the movie... Just ask someone about it.

Lenore is not mainstream, but thanks to Hot Topic, will probably be slighlty more mainstream (I CAN BUY OUTRAGOUSLY PRICED LENORE GEAR NOW! Big Grin And I do buy it...but very occasionally).

John Constantine Hellblazer, aka Constantine is a bit mainstream....again, thanks to the movie.

Sorry, just had to get that out.
----------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't realize how the [mainstream] comic industry is getting. I mean, I only read about two comics and then, I waste more money on manga than on "American Comics." Those pics of the Hulk and the one X-man, HORRIBLE! Gees, I grew up with the TV Hulk so I've been kinda ticked with the stuff lately (the movie) and how they portray him.

I also only read Catwoman and Batman. Lately, I've been annoyed with what Catwoman is doing. She's always broken the law, but now she's done stuff even I don't agree with. And Batman... I'm guilty of not reading the comics I buy. There was some gross stuff in that, but part of that was character development (the one bad guy's past).

Personally, I've always found the blood and guts violence to be unnecessary. There seriously is no point for it because what does it do? Shock you...which is what they want to do, but people eventually turn themselves off from that and give up. I would stop buying it if it really grossed me out. I mean, they did break Batman's back once (oh that image still freaks me out) but that was years ago and that was with Bane.

It's fun to see what characters can do, but yeah, there is only so much you can do. It's not a bad thing to start off, just with another point of view....
I like to see things redone. I mean, that's what "The Ultimate SpiderMan" books are, just a complete restart and time update.

Later,
Pen1300
Generalissimo D 01-02-2006 05:39 PM
There is a solution. That is the Retcon to End All Retcons. Marvel, DC, etc. must unite and publish a single tome the size of which could be used as armor against armor piercing bullets. This will explain how some crazy guy (Lets call him Publizor) manipulates reality and such to the point nothing makes sense, and then all the old style heros(I mean, first appearence costumes and such) and villians break through a portal and trap him in a sandwhich. Afterwhich, Super Saiyan Jesus comes and all Comicdom dissapears. And V is left dancing a vaudeville routine in the final blank pages, which when flipped fast do some sort of cheapo flipbook animation.

That is the end of Comics.
Sharpshooter005 01-03-2006 09:36 PM
quote:
BUY OUTRAGOUSLY PRICED LENORE GEAR


I'm getting an idea...

I'd like to announce my new comic. It's uh...it's about this...zombie...notary public who breathes ammonia, and his name is Chamberlain. Basically thats all it is, but it's okay, because that dosen't matter.

Every page of it will be black. I'm just going to spill printing ink onto a page, then xerox it 50 or so times. I will do this quarterly. Then...I'll claim it's post-modern, or some form of ironic commentary. Yeah.

And we'll market it as edgy and underground. The basic point of this, is I eventually just begin selling plain black t-shirts for about...fifty dollars a pop.

It's like printing money.

quote:
That is the Retcon to End All Retcons


Superman finds out that Patrick Duffy is still alive, and hence, every previous issue was a dream?
Generalissimo D 01-03-2006 10:15 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Sharpshooter005
quote:
That is the Retcon to End All Retcons


Superman finds out that Patrick Duffy is still alive, and hence, every previous issue was a dream?


More or less, just with pizzaz.
Dork 01-06-2006 02:23 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Gonzo
There's only so much you can do. Charachters can only die a certain amount of times until it gets old (f*** you, HAND). Superheros can only do so much until they become stale. And, for god sakes, Captain America is the worst charachter next to Man-Thing.

Marvel should call it quits soon. Same with Nintendo and Pokemon, Mario and Kirby.


Hey, there's nothing wrong with Pokémon -although the series should have ended five years ago- the current games have just as much wholesome addictive strategic fun as blue and red did. . . only now in color. And you can see the info of moves. And you can run. And the bike's easier to get to. And you can challenge trainers an infinite number of times taking a lot of tedium away from leveling up.

What am I talking about? Pokémon's better now. And as someone who only bought yellow five months ago I can say that without incuring wrath because I'm one of the original players. Big Grin
-----------------------

I hate the '{blank} is raping my childhood memories!!!' ticket as much as anyone. Idiot 'Willy Wonka' fans won't leave 'Charlie' fans alone with that one. But I think that ticket may apply here. As other have said they're taking series and characters who've gone for decades without grostesque violence and then suddenly throwing eaten eyeballs and snapped spines in the mix.

I'm not in touch with the comic book scene. But these underground comics that are doing so well must have more to them than violence. It reminds me of the servents who carried jars of sunshine into a windowless house to bring in light. DC and Marvel are looking at the most obvious side-effect of successfull comics and believe that the violence is where those comics' power lies.

If you take a goodie goodie superhero mag and throw in some violence you still have a goodie goodie superhero mag. Just one that's likely to cause grumblings of dis-content amoung fans who are after a goodie goodie superhero mag.

All and all I'm appalled at the level of violence in movies, comics, and games. I don't see how gore for the sake of gore can possibly be entertaining.
Randolph 01-06-2006 07:20 AM
Well, bloody gory violence can be entertaining on a very base level,
as with Doom and other such franchises. But, it's only entertaining when
scorched earth, plastered flesh, horrible deformed monsters
and the massive phallic weapons you use to tear them limb from limb are the entire focus. Trying to take such a mess and give it any kind of meaning or purpose destroys it.

Other than that, it means very little and is frankly powerless when combined with a storyline. Gratuitous violence is on the same level as gratuitous fan service; it only works when gratuitous.
Trying to make an entire series around it just won't work.
It's a spice, not a dish by itself.
Nine Kuze 01-11-2006 02:41 PM
:: HOW CAN THEY DO THAT TO WOLVIE?! TAKE ME INSTEAD!!! ::


The comic industry going mad? Not only that, but sadly desparate and a long ways away from its glorious heydays. I think the the main problem is is that with the movies coming out based on the comics, who the hell wants to actually read something when they can have an easier time visually watching something that requires less thinking? I just kidding but the thing is is that the comic companies have really put some crap out there that they try and sell as comics which just instead as good as what the stuff used to before.

I can understand the whole dilemma you guys have with the Scarlet Spider/Clone saga but I've always like Scarlet Spider... until they made the whole Clone Wars thing unneccassary confusing. "Wait, Ben's the clone!" "No, wait, Peter really is!" A couple fifty issues like this later and this is sadly what the comic world gives us.

It just seems like the companies really have nothing else to do and can't really think of anything else to give us. So, because of that we get crap like X-Men 2099, the junior superheroes like Spider Man's daughter, Juggernaut's and Captain America's son, the whole "fresh" Ultimate series, and for the love of God I'm sorry, but Gonzo, did you say they made Colussus gay?

And Captain American is NOT one of the worst characters but I do hate the Avengers nonetheless.
Peace.