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Originally posted by ScionofDestiny
SEED gave me what I wanted. I enjoy animation because of the symbology of anime - the symbology of politics, economics, religion, science, and other controversial issues that is often discreetly but noticeably placed into the plot concepts and sometimes directly through names of people, places, or things. Gundam SEED Destiny had, in my opinion, a worse plot than Gundam Seed, but it did accurately represent a lot of the feeling toward modern war being profitable toward business - which especially fits in with the feeling of many democrats with oil in the Middle East. It also fitted in with many left-wing conspiracy theories about "titans of business" controlling international politics because they are the ones who fund representatives to pass laws favorable to the wealthy AND the religious.
I of course might challenge them "has it ever been any different"? The rich have a striking advantage of the middle class - it's called financial power and advanced educational opertunies.
So yes, I like Gundam Seed Destiny's symbology - it fits in with "modern" criticisms of war very well, but I was forced to challenge if this was mecha series or a soap opera from time to time.
"Modern" - the only thing modern is that there is criticism. The wealthy, socially influential, and the powerful have dominated society since chieftains got the biggest cave. Make a democracy and they'll adjust to the system perfectly - which is true for almost any conceivable government.
6/10 for Gundam Seed Destiny - would have given it 6.5, but Shinn Asuka EXISTS in that series. So 6 it is.
Gundam Seed itself was a remix of old themes, but I liked it. The themes were ones that I liked - the old Gundams were (in a sense)better, but the Cosmic Era certainly shouldn't be written off. I have speculated that part of the reason people don't like it is strictly because it is in a new universe.
I've heard half of the fans say that graphics in Gundam Seed suck and others say they are some of the greatest they have ever seen. I think it is mostly preference. A preference of series rather than graphics - animated series are rarely "that bad" - people just think they are bad because they vary and people have so many preferences. I will admit that some of the character (and for that matter, Gundam) designs annoyed me, but overall the graphics didn't rub me the wrong way. Inconsequentially, many reliable anime magazines (like Newtype?) commented and said the graphics were great - and generally when Newtype thinks graphics are bad they tell you. The perception of bad graphics comes from the psychological tendancy of people to look out for the bad in series they don't like. The first impression is also important. It takes one episode to make a series bad, but twenty good episodes to make it good again.
One observation about the SEED universe though. WATCH IT IN JAPANENSE. The English voice actors can really tear down the feeling - they are good, but simply out of place. Even people who generally hate Japanese would like the feeling presented in the subs better. |
I'm still possibly willing to give SEED Destiny a try. However, I didn't like SEED except for maybe the Desert Arc and the ORB Arc, which were in the ballpark. But let me explain myself based on what you said here instead of sounding like an illogical basher.
*The problem with the SEED Universe IS NOT that it's a new Universe. I'm a guy who welcomed and enjoyed even G-Gundam with open arms, so I'm very open to Gundam interpretation and new Universes. The issue is that this "New" Universe REALLY feels like a watered down UC extension. Now, I'm not a diehard fan of UC by any means, but what I'm saying is that it borrows far more from UC than ANY OTHER Universe, and it can't even pull off most borrowed scenes/elements as well. Andrew Waltfeld's sequence wasn't as good as Ramba Ral's just to name one off the top of my head. The whole Cosmic Era Universe just seems too familiar. There's not the apocalyptic twist of Gundam X, the guerilla warfare twist of Wing, the retro twist of Turn-A, the Fighting twist of G-Gundam. And each of those series had many unique elements that they showcased that now SEED tried to emulate as well to a lesser effect. SEED's Universe just comes off as "I've seen this all before" as a result.
*Aside from maybe the descrimination/genocide of Coordinators by Blue Cosmos--which wasn't played up much as of SEED's end--The Cosmic Era's political messages are in no way comprehensively superior to, modern, or more noteworthy that other Gundams, and I would say play a much less impressive role, than in past Gundams. There's no way the politics of SEED can match up to Gundam Wing for instance. It's just the facts: You see huge international political scenarios of war and peace, militaries and nations, class struggle and weapons trade/manufacturing business, guerillas and idealists, the sin of programmed child soldiers, resource battles, etc.
The organizations are many: United Earth-Sphere Alliance, Specials, OZ, Barton Foundation, Treize Faction, Quinz's 1st Colonial Revolutionary Army, and 2nd, White Fang, The Sweeper salvaging group, the Long Clan, The Sanc Kingdom, The Romefeller Foundation, The World Nation, The Five Rebel Doctors, the Earth Sphere Unified Nation, The Maguanoc Corps, The Colony Governments, etc.
*The pacing in Gundam SEED is horrible. There are too many clip episodes. The previous organization/conflict list I noted form Gundam Wing happened in 49 TV episodes, one movie, and one prequel manga--only 2 clip episodes (and that was due to animation time constraints. The scripts were plotted and featured in the canon prequel manga for those episodes). Gundam SEED has tons of manga, compilation movies, and some 100 tv episodes, yet very little has occured.
*SEED had an interesting setup of two friends against one another for the long haul, but it was spoiled by bad writing. We've seen this theme done in much shorter amounts of time far better in Gundam 0080 and 08th MS Team.
*Animation styles change, and people like different types of animation, so I won't go there much. I'll only say in that realm that the very bright color sceme and most cartoony character designs yet in mainstream Gundam don't lend credibility to a warzone or political conflict.
*When doing a war story--especially a Gundam war story--the battles have to be frequent and exciting. It seems like Destiny improves over SEED in this regard, but it's still an issue connected to the pacing.
*Finally, the characters just don't have much depth. Their backgrounds aren't very well-developed and utilized, and they've had far more time to perform this than other series.
In the end, ironically, the Gundam SEED franchise is probably better than a lot of other anime right now. However, even without the animation complaints, the way SEED unabashedly takes from past Gundams without improving upon it or adding new material in spades, like other Alternate Universes did, makes it too predictable and cheapens it greatly. It, in effect, waters down Gundam as a whole. Gundam isn't supposed to be average, it's supposed to be exceptional and an edge-of-your seat suspense action-drama. I don't mean to offend anyone, but that's my reasoning for being bothered by SEED.
