Gundam X in the corporate doghouse? Why?

Paradigm Dog 03-07-2006 11:31 AM
quote:
But ZZ?...I still hope one day bandai gets some damn sense and releases Gundam X over here.


Amen, brother.

Yeah, ZZ appears to be next. The fan community Gundam Plus ran this story a while back in FALL 2004, and it makes sense since Gundam Z is currently being re-released in the US in 2-disk DVDs outside of the expensive boxset. Probably when that's done (if it isn't already), DESTINY will be about ready (sometime this Spring), and then soon after ZZ will probably arrive by my estimation:

quote:
Pepperidge from Toonzone has a post [link]describing his conversations with the voice actor for Mu La Flaga in US Gundam SEED, and also a note from another voice actor that Blue Water Studios is most likely working on the Gundam ZZ dub now.


One thing's for sure, even if this is somehow wrong, the next series won't be Gundam X, as I received an email late last year from Bandai saying they are unsure when, "IF EVER," Gundam X will be released in the North American market. Sheesh, it sounds like it's going to be a fight between TURN-A and X to see which gets released last in the US...because the more SEED made, the fewer X's chances become. I've been patient for 6 years, I wonder how much longer it'll take. ugh. The waiting game saga continues. lol.
David Ryder 03-07-2006 01:50 PM
quote:
fight between TURN-A and X to see which gets released last in the US


And we all know what the outcome of a battle like that would be....

quote:
I've been patient for 6 years, I wonder how much longer it'll take.


same here, I however broke down and watched it fansubbed but would def. pay money to have it over here and in english because Garrods japanese VA is beyond annoying.
Paradigm Dog 03-08-2006 05:35 PM
LATEST on SEED 3:

From animenewsnetwork.com: Mobile Suit Gundam SEED C.E.73 Stargazer

New ONA ['Original Net Animation' like the recent, cool-looking King of Fighters Another Day] to Take Place After Break the World.

According to the latest issue of Newtype, Mobile Suit Gundam SEED C.E.73 Stargazer will be a 3-episode ONA taking place immediately after the "Break the World" event (The event that led to the start of the war in Mobile Suit Gundam Seed Destiny).


Also of note, is that it has been noted the oft-complained about main writer and her husband director of Gundam SEED and Destiny are not involved.

Weird that they'd choose an obscure prequel timeframe for the new series like this. That's like if Tomino had had Gundam 0083 come out directly after Zeta. Doesn't make the most sense to revisit so soon, especially when the main series is rather inconclusive in its ending I've heard. Could this be a lead into future OVAs?

I think they maybe need to sink the SEED universe and either go back to UC or come up with a new AU. SEED just seems stale at this point; it's used up its time.
David Ryder 03-08-2006 07:08 PM
quote:
Could this be a lead into future OVAs?


In short, yes indeed. Sunrise seems to be treating the SEED universe as their new UC.

quote:
or come up with a new AU.


Like Gundam X side stories. infact there is a manga in japan that would make a nice little OVA in the After War world.
Paradigm Dog 04-11-2006 12:57 PM
Well, my worst fears are being realized...

There used to be a statement back when Bandai was riding high with Gundam Wing that it was only a matter of time before all of Gundam got a chance in the North American market. Not necessarily so anymore.

It's been a while since I last inquired about Gundam X to Bandai, so I thought I'd give it another go. The rep confirmed that SEED is their foremost priority right now. (too bad the SEED series is hopeless). It was noted that Gundam X was among "older series" that might be released at some point (like 'old'--late 90's golden era of anime old--is bad. sheesh. The animation alone kicks butt: I saw a video clip online of the Gundam Ashtaron being chased by Dom-like MS and have been pumped ever since).

The SEED Stargazer OVA site has opened in Japan and from what I've gathered, the new writers and director have done little to improve the SEED universe. So, for the next odd number of years, we will continue to be subjected to SEED here in North America.

You know what's weird, I finally realized that SEED is hardly an alternate universe. More than any other series, it has A LOT in common with UC. Why didn't they just make SEED UC Post-V Gundam. I don't understand why people think SEED is so exciting and new.

Anyways, the other news is that for Gundam's coming 30th anniversary, more rumors are flying around from key people in SUNRISE according to Gunota Headlines, that a new UC series or OVA may be done in the next few years.

Meanwhile Gundam X collects dust. I just have to shake my head and groan...ugh
David Ryder 04-11-2006 06:33 PM
I never could quite understand why everyone is so head over heels for SEED. The original SEED was ok, Destiny sucked, and this new 3 episode OVA doesn't look much better. The only reason SEED seems to be so popular is it follows Gundam Wings forumla and has really pretty animation.

1. uber one sided battles.
2. typical weak mass produced MS's.
3. rather shallow charecters and to few interesting. In wing it was Duo who was actually beliveable.
4. It drags on on for ever and ever, but atleast wing actually had an ending, not cliff hanger after cliff hanger.

It's safe to say that we will be seeing more of the SEED world.

quote:
that a new UC series or OVA may be done in the next few years.


Hmmm a new UC series huh, well Gundam has been pretty weak for the past few years, so even though it would be UC based, the odds of it sucking are quite high.
Paradigm Dog 04-12-2006 04:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Gaddes
I never could quite understand why everyone is so head over heels for SEED. The original SEED was ok, Destiny sucked, and this new 3 episode OVA doesn't look much better. The only reason SEED seems to be so popular is it follows Gundam Wings forumla and has really pretty animation.

1. uber one sided battles.
2. typical weak mass produced MS's.
3. rather shallow charecters and to few interesting. In wing it was Duo who was actually beliveable.
4. It drags on on for ever and ever, but atleast wing actually had an ending, not cliff hanger after cliff hanger.

It's safe to say that we will be seeing more of the SEED world.

quote:
that a new UC series or OVA may be done in the next few years.


Hmmm a new UC series huh, well Gundam has been pretty weak for the past few years, so even though it would be UC based, the odds of it sucking are quite high.


I'm not going to go into it (because it's an argument in the fandom that'll rediculously never be resolved or agreed upon) but Gundam Wing and Gundam SEED are like apples and oranges on all levels, just in the same way Gundam 0079 and Wing are. I will say this, though: Gundam SEED's animation is not pretty whatsoever. It's candy-colored, bubble-plastic that moves like flash animation. No, the fancy Intros don't count. In-show, SEED looks nearly looks akin to stuff like Totally Spies.

Gundam deserves better, and it's not like it can't happen. In the last 4 years or so, it's painfully obvious that Studio BONES has really put Sunrise to SHAME: RahXephon, Wolf's Rain, and now Eureka Seven tear Gundam SEED /DESTINY into microscopic confetti!

As for the new UC series. I have no faith in it. As far as I'm concerned, the SEED franchise has done serious damage to the credibility of Gundam along the same lines ZOIDS FUZORS did to the Zoids anime series. The execs need to realize that their older work, particularlly of the 90s, was better in all aspects and needs to get be released in markets outside of Japan. When I hear places like Toonzone.net saying Gundam Wing looks ugly and dated next to Gundam SEED, it's become apparent that people's eye for good, fluid animation with character has somehow, somewhere along the line, become watered down and terribly twisted.
Paradigm Dog 04-17-2006 11:36 PM
Ironic: Animenewsnetwork just complained about GUNDAM X not being on TV!!!

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/columns/the-click.php?id=7

"Gundam X

Numerous factors are working against this show even being released on DVD, much less appearing on TV. Chief among them were the show's weak ratings on Japanese television, which is unfortunate given that Gundam X happens to be the most underrated of all the Gundam outings, and, dare I say it, probably the best of the AU Gundam timeline. (That's “Alternative Universe” for all you damn kids out there.) Despite being far more action-oriented than the exposition-fest that is Gundam SEED, Bandai was understandably desperate to get the newer series and its accompanying toy line out the pipeline first. Note that now Gundam SEED has disappeared from its 5:00am Saturday morning “death slot” on Cartoon Network, as well as the lack of any announcement regarding the TV broadcast of Gundam SEED Destiny."
David Ryder 04-18-2006 04:35 AM
Well it it's nice to know that ANN is on the side of the rightous. Gundam X should have been released on DVD ages ago, like after Wing. The region 2 set looks nice and would be a great way to release it, as a full box set, sorta like they did with Zeta. I do agree that Gundam X is underrated. It has an amazing story, great charecters, and nice mecha designs, despite the animation being less than impressive.
Paradigm Dog 04-18-2006 09:29 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Gaddes
...despite the animation being less than impressive.


Gaddes, could I get your opinion on the animation in comparison form? I've heard so many different views on Gundam X's animation from online reviews--some sound inflated, others seem about right. From what I've seen in low-res clips and a medium-res trailer, Gundam X looks comparable to Wing, and maybe (at points) 08th Team. Whether that's good or bad is in the eye of the beholder, I realize, but is this the right ballpark for the animation quality? I'd be satisfied if it was equal to Wing.
David Ryder 04-18-2006 07:06 PM
quote:
Gaddes, could I get your opinion on the animation in comparison form?


It was ok for the buget it had, and the fact that it got cut short. I would say it has rather average animation, Wing quality, or good but nothing to write home about.
Wingnut 04-19-2006 07:50 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Gaddes
quote:
Gaddes, could I get your opinion on the animation in comparison form?


It was ok for the buget it had, and the fact that it got cut short. I would say it has rather average animation, Wing quality, or good but nothing to write home about.

None of that fancy-smancy CG crap if that's what you were wondering. X was made in '96 just after Wing, which contibuted to its lack of sucess, they should've waited a year or two after Wing in order to let the viewing audience regain intrest in a new Gundam series again.
Paradigm Dog 04-19-2006 12:01 PM
Gaddes, Wingnut, thanks for your responses!

I know I keep harping about Gundam X, but it sounds like a winner to me. As someone who really liked the animation of Gundam Wing and who hates the, as Wingnut suggested, "fancy-smancy CG crap" that is Gundam SEED and company, this is definitely my most anticipated anime title aside from the limboed BIG-O Season 3.

Gundam X seems to maintain the 90's quality and stylish design aesthetic of Gundam Wing while doing its own cool, very unique thing with story and characters. I can't wait to see people like Witz Sou, Enill El, and the Frost Brothers in action and see their motivations. Sorry, but I'm not too excited about the prospect of Gundam ZZ being released first. I respect mainstream UC's contribution, of course, but I'm definitely more of a AU (sans SEED) and side-story UC guy.

Gundam Wing, Gundam 0080, G-Gundam, and 08th MS Team are my top favs, Gundam Wing being the very top (though 0080 puts up quite a fight). I know people give it heck, but I feel Gundam Wing encapsulated the best elements Gundam before it, while adding tons of depth in the political intrigue department, more excitement and variety in the area of action, a really dynamic musical score, and iconic characters that developed more slowly and naturally, and whose depth took careful examination. When you see Gundam Wing with Endless Waltz and the canon Episode Zero manga (leftover scripts for the series that were sadly cut due to tough scheduling) attached, the unique, full-circle genius of Wing's characters and world really shine. I feel that Gundam X will be an extension of the exciting creative boon felt in Wing. One last thing to say about Wing, is that in about 7 episodes, probably even much fewer than that, more happens than in the entire SEED Universe. The pacing of Wing was, largely, intense.

As for UC, each had their points, but I thought 0079 was too plain and linear in character and story, and CC and F91, while improvements, still lacked that extra special something and felt too disjointed. My verdict's still out on Z-Gundam and the rest. It's difficult to sample now that CN isn't pulling their weight in Gundam, and I'm thinking of waiting for the New Translations of Zeta to come to the US, since that's supposedly the way Tomino wanted it to be to begin with. As for Gundam X, I'd snatch that up without hesitation, without previewing, it if it came out on DVD in North America.
David Ryder 04-19-2006 01:06 PM
That's the think I like about Gundam X. It unlike the rest of the AU's, Gundam X has an amazing set of charecters. Roybea Loy owns your soul, and lets not forget Jamil Neate, who is more or less Gundam X's take on Char. Garrod Ran is a welcome change from the other AU main charecters like Domon (OMG I like to fight) and heero (I'm a robot in realitly).

I under stand your wanting to see Gundam X PD, trust me it owns all other Gundam IMO. Yeah ZZ sucks big time, I mean come on Aztec space ninja's, yes there's two episodes dealing with just that very subject.
Paradigm Dog 04-20-2006 09:29 AM
A cool find!

I checked YouTube.com for Gundam X clips, and they had a FanDub of one scene! While it's not perfect, it came off very well for an amateur performance. It gave me a better feel for the characters. I'm even more excited now
Here's the clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVc6e-5o6...m%20X%26quot%3B
.

As I suspected, the English Garroad Ran should NOT be played by Scott McNeil "Duo" as many people have suggested in the past. This performance here seems more in the right ballpark. Garroad's more of a natural--albeit perhaps michevious--teen. He doesn't seem to be doing his best like Duo (Solo's death, Maxwell Church Incident, etc)to mask his pain of his losses with forced cheeryness; Garroad still has a good deal of genuine optimisim and innoscence, I feel. Thus, it's a different tone than Duo.

The other thing this made me realize is that I NEED an English dub of this. While I've watched subs before, since I don't speak Japanese, the inflections don't mean as much to my mind, oft times the characters are drawn with a Western look--especially in GX--where they fit better with English voices, and the immersion level for an English speaker is boosted up so they can take in the animation without being distracted by reading. I feel a solid English dub will really boost the Gundam X experience...Though, it may take many years for that to happen. If worse comes to worse I'll try to obtain a sub.

I found a rumor from 2004 that said at that time Gundam SEED Destiny, Gundam ZZ, and Gundam X were the next US releases in that order. I have no idea if this rumor has any merit; however, a while ago found some backing about Gundam ZZ being in the works because of a fansite interview with the voice actor of Mu La Flaga allegedly being in it. We'll have to wait and see...
Wingnut 04-20-2006 10:18 AM
Not bad, although Jamil's voice sucked, although I guess the dubbers didn't put much into it considering he only had one line.
This scene is at the begining of episode two for those that were wondering BTW. Funny thing is the Gundam X does have a secret weapon, however only Jamil knows about it bacause he has seen and used it before himself. The uber-weapon of the Gundam X universe, the Satalite cannon.
I also have an interesting screencap I found that shows just how bad the devistation to the Earth was. It is a map that is briefly shown while the power transfer system on the moon is locking on to the signal from the Gundam X to fire the satalite cannon.
Has your home been turned into a crater? Mine wasn't.
David Ryder 04-20-2006 11:43 AM
I feel that bandai need to STOP USING OCEAN for gundam dubs. every ocean gundam dub I've seen has pretty much sucked, Zeta's dub was solid work though. My dream is to have a Bang Zoom Gundam X dub, as that would kick hugh amounts of booty.
ScionofDestiny 04-20-2006 08:32 PM
SEED gave me what I wanted. I enjoy animation because of the symbology of anime - the symbology of politics, economics, religion, science, and other controversial issues that is often discreetly but noticeably placed into the plot concepts and sometimes directly through names of people, places, or things. Gundam SEED Destiny had, in my opinion, a worse plot than Gundam Seed, but it did accurately represent a lot of the feeling toward modern war being profitable toward business - which especially fits in with the feeling of many democrats with oil in the Middle East. It also fitted in with many left-wing conspiracy theories about "titans of business" controlling international politics because they are the ones who fund representatives to pass laws favorable to the wealthy AND the religious.

I of course might challenge them "has it ever been any different"? The rich have a striking advantage of the middle class - it's called financial power and advanced educational opertunies.

So yes, I like Gundam Seed Destiny's symbology - it fits in with "modern" criticisms of war very well, but I was forced to challenge if this was mecha series or a soap opera from time to time.

"Modern" - the only thing modern is that there is criticism. The wealthy, socially influential, and the powerful have dominated society since chieftains got the biggest cave. Make a democracy and they'll adjust to the system perfectly - which is true for almost any conceivable government.

6/10 for Gundam Seed Destiny - would have given it 6.5, but Shinn Asuka EXISTS in that series. So 6 it is.

Gundam Seed itself was a remix of old themes, but I liked it. The themes were ones that I liked - the old Gundams were (in a sense)better, but the Cosmic Era certainly shouldn't be written off. I have speculated that part of the reason people don't like it is strictly because it is in a new universe.

I've heard half of the fans say that graphics in Gundam Seed suck and others say they are some of the greatest they have ever seen. I think it is mostly preference. A preference of series rather than graphics - animated series are rarely "that bad" - people just think they are bad because they vary and people have so many preferences. I will admit that some of the character (and for that matter, Gundam) designs annoyed me, but overall the graphics didn't rub me the wrong way. Inconsequentially, many reliable anime magazines (like Newtype?) commented and said the graphics were great - and generally when Newtype thinks graphics are bad they tell you. The perception of bad graphics comes from the psychological tendancy of people to look out for the bad in series they don't like. The first impression is also important. It takes one episode to make a series bad, but twenty good episodes to make it good again.

One observation about the SEED universe though. WATCH IT IN JAPANENSE. The English voice actors can really tear down the feeling - they are good, but simply out of place. Even people who generally hate Japanese would like the feeling presented in the subs better.
Paradigm Dog 04-21-2006 06:02 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ScionofDestiny
SEED gave me what I wanted. I enjoy animation because of the symbology of anime - the symbology of politics, economics, religion, science, and other controversial issues that is often discreetly but noticeably placed into the plot concepts and sometimes directly through names of people, places, or things. Gundam SEED Destiny had, in my opinion, a worse plot than Gundam Seed, but it did accurately represent a lot of the feeling toward modern war being profitable toward business - which especially fits in with the feeling of many democrats with oil in the Middle East. It also fitted in with many left-wing conspiracy theories about "titans of business" controlling international politics because they are the ones who fund representatives to pass laws favorable to the wealthy AND the religious.

I of course might challenge them "has it ever been any different"? The rich have a striking advantage of the middle class - it's called financial power and advanced educational opertunies.

So yes, I like Gundam Seed Destiny's symbology - it fits in with "modern" criticisms of war very well, but I was forced to challenge if this was mecha series or a soap opera from time to time.

"Modern" - the only thing modern is that there is criticism. The wealthy, socially influential, and the powerful have dominated society since chieftains got the biggest cave. Make a democracy and they'll adjust to the system perfectly - which is true for almost any conceivable government.

6/10 for Gundam Seed Destiny - would have given it 6.5, but Shinn Asuka EXISTS in that series. So 6 it is.

Gundam Seed itself was a remix of old themes, but I liked it. The themes were ones that I liked - the old Gundams were (in a sense)better, but the Cosmic Era certainly shouldn't be written off. I have speculated that part of the reason people don't like it is strictly because it is in a new universe.

I've heard half of the fans say that graphics in Gundam Seed suck and others say they are some of the greatest they have ever seen. I think it is mostly preference. A preference of series rather than graphics - animated series are rarely "that bad" - people just think they are bad because they vary and people have so many preferences. I will admit that some of the character (and for that matter, Gundam) designs annoyed me, but overall the graphics didn't rub me the wrong way. Inconsequentially, many reliable anime magazines (like Newtype?) commented and said the graphics were great - and generally when Newtype thinks graphics are bad they tell you. The perception of bad graphics comes from the psychological tendancy of people to look out for the bad in series they don't like. The first impression is also important. It takes one episode to make a series bad, but twenty good episodes to make it good again.

One observation about the SEED universe though. WATCH IT IN JAPANENSE. The English voice actors can really tear down the feeling - they are good, but simply out of place. Even people who generally hate Japanese would like the feeling presented in the subs better.


I'm still possibly willing to give SEED Destiny a try. However, I didn't like SEED except for maybe the Desert Arc and the ORB Arc, which were in the ballpark. But let me explain myself based on what you said here instead of sounding like an illogical basher.

*The problem with the SEED Universe IS NOT that it's a new Universe. I'm a guy who welcomed and enjoyed even G-Gundam with open arms, so I'm very open to Gundam interpretation and new Universes. The issue is that this "New" Universe REALLY feels like a watered down UC extension. Now, I'm not a diehard fan of UC by any means, but what I'm saying is that it borrows far more from UC than ANY OTHER Universe, and it can't even pull off most borrowed scenes/elements as well. Andrew Waltfeld's sequence wasn't as good as Ramba Ral's just to name one off the top of my head. The whole Cosmic Era Universe just seems too familiar. There's not the apocalyptic twist of Gundam X, the guerilla warfare twist of Wing, the retro twist of Turn-A, the Fighting twist of G-Gundam. And each of those series had many unique elements that they showcased that now SEED tried to emulate as well to a lesser effect. SEED's Universe just comes off as "I've seen this all before" as a result.

*Aside from maybe the descrimination/genocide of Coordinators by Blue Cosmos--which wasn't played up much as of SEED's end--The Cosmic Era's political messages are in no way comprehensively superior to, modern, or more noteworthy that other Gundams, and I would say play a much less impressive role, than in past Gundams. There's no way the politics of SEED can match up to Gundam Wing for instance. It's just the facts: You see huge international political scenarios of war and peace, militaries and nations, class struggle and weapons trade/manufacturing business, guerillas and idealists, the sin of programmed child soldiers, resource battles, etc. The organizations are many: United Earth-Sphere Alliance, Specials, OZ, Barton Foundation, Treize Faction, Quinz's 1st Colonial Revolutionary Army, and 2nd, White Fang, The Sweeper salvaging group, the Long Clan, The Sanc Kingdom, The Romefeller Foundation, The World Nation, The Five Rebel Doctors, the Earth Sphere Unified Nation, The Maguanoc Corps, The Colony Governments, etc.

*The pacing in Gundam SEED is horrible. There are too many clip episodes. The previous organization/conflict list I noted form Gundam Wing happened in 49 TV episodes, one movie, and one prequel manga--only 2 clip episodes (and that was due to animation time constraints. The scripts were plotted and featured in the canon prequel manga for those episodes). Gundam SEED has tons of manga, compilation movies, and some 100 tv episodes, yet very little has occured.

*SEED had an interesting setup of two friends against one another for the long haul, but it was spoiled by bad writing. We've seen this theme done in much shorter amounts of time far better in Gundam 0080 and 08th MS Team.

*Animation styles change, and people like different types of animation, so I won't go there much. I'll only say in that realm that the very bright color sceme and most cartoony character designs yet in mainstream Gundam don't lend credibility to a warzone or political conflict.

*When doing a war story--especially a Gundam war story--the battles have to be frequent and exciting. It seems like Destiny improves over SEED in this regard, but it's still an issue connected to the pacing.

*Finally, the characters just don't have much depth. Their backgrounds aren't very well-developed and utilized, and they've had far more time to perform this than other series.

In the end, ironically, the Gundam SEED franchise is probably better than a lot of other anime right now. However, even without the animation complaints, the way SEED unabashedly takes from past Gundams without improving upon it or adding new material in spades, like other Alternate Universes did, makes it too predictable and cheapens it greatly. It, in effect, waters down Gundam as a whole. Gundam isn't supposed to be average, it's supposed to be exceptional and an edge-of-your seat suspense action-drama. I don't mean to offend anyone, but that's my reasoning for being bothered by SEED.
ScionofDestiny 04-21-2006 08:50 PM
"shrugs" I agree on most of it but I still like Seed. I wasn't talking about you specifically, but by and large on a significant portion of fans. I liked Gundam Wing when I watched it, and the older Gundams, despite their old-fashioned graphics, were good as well.