Day of the Advent question

Sorry if you already have talked about this, but I couldn't find an answer to this anywhere. Anyways here is my quandry: I never really noticed this before but there is something really weird in Day of the Advent. Doesn't anyone find it strange that a sattelite falls on the city? I mean how could a sattelite fall through the sky? After seeing that there were a bunch of lights and stuff in Act 26, it kind of makes Day of the Advent impossible doesn't it? Isn't it also strange that Rosewater knew where the sattelite would hit? He had a bunch of projections of where the sattelite would hit somehow. But then we see that there is no sky as we know it. There is instead some huge apparatus above the city. So a potential sattelite would have to what, fall through all that stuff? I don't get it. Does anyone else?

I believe some people have theorized that the Superdome is not a solid dome, but a swarth of girders, so it would be possible for something to fall through all the holes.

I think I also heard someone suggest that if could have been a stagelight that exploded or something, and then was knocked almost sideways, on an impact course for Paradigm.

Interesting prospect... I'm still not satisfied though. I mean, If they were able to project the path of a sattelite, then how come no one knew about the lights and girders above the city? Also, if the thing that fell was from part of a stagelight or whatever, then why did it come in sideways? That doesn't make any sense, does it? Did they write Day of the Advent before writing the end or something? I feel like this was a mistake, but maybe there is some explanation that I am not considering. Maybe what you said is right though, who knows.

I thought that possibly the satallite wasn't really in the air, but on a pole of some kind; like a satallite dish, high above Paradigm, and that Rosewater had discovered this; after all, if he's got a huge rotating room he must have PCs, and where there are PCs there is data.

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Originally posted by Spacehog Sorry if you already have talked about this, but I couldn't find an answer to this anywhere. Anyways here is my quandry: I never really noticed this before but there is something really weird in Day of the Advent. Doesn't anyone find it strange that a sattelite falls on the city? I mean how could a sattelite fall through the sky? After seeing that there were a bunch of lights and stuff in Act 26, it kind of makes Day of the Advent impossible doesn't it? Isn't it also strange that Rosewater knew where the sattelite would hit? He had a bunch of projections of where the sattelite would hit somehow. But then we see that there is no sky as we know it. There is instead some huge apparatus above the city. So a potential sattelite would have to what, fall through all that stuff? I don't get it. Does anyone else?

Rosewater got his information from that disk of Roscoe Fitzgerald's, which presumably contained all sorts of information from before the Event of 40 years ago.

As for the girders and such, what makes you think they existed at the time of Day of the Advent? Reality seemed awfully changeable in the last couple of episodes.

If you asked me I would say that the director was throwing things on to the stage setting from higer above. ^_^" Or maybe it was Mir. LOL.

-Beth

As for the girders and such, what makes you think they existed at the time of Day of the Advent? Reality seemed awfully changeable in the last couple of episodes.

That's an interesting concept Tomato. I hadn't considered that. As for Mir, didn't Taco Bell float a target out into the ocean for Mir to hit? I heard that they did, and that if Mir actually hit the target, then everyone in America would get a free taco. Pretty sweet.

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Originally posted by A Clockwork Tomato As for the girders and such, what makes you think they existed at the time of Day of the Advent? Reality seemed awfully changeable in the last couple of episodes.

Perception of reality got really funky towards the end, but I think that Superdome has always been there. There have been some continuity errors (disappearing holes from Act18 to Act26) but I think the reality of Paradigm City (what little there was.... MEMORIES!!!11! @_@) has stayed pretty constant. With the exception of Schwarzwald...because Schwarzwald kicks so much @$$ that reality need not apply.

The correct question you should have asked about "Day of the Advent" was why it sucked so bad. Seriously, its quite possibly THE worst episode of The Big O ever.

Anyway, since Hobodoken said pretty much what I was going to say, we could always throw out another less possible, even lamer theory that since they knew where they satellite would fall they built a hole in the girders to allow it to fall....... I know it sucks.

Dude, don't be hatin'! We all cool here! ('sides, thats one of me fav episodes, but lets not get to that) What?

Okay, to the debate. I believe the satelite was a stagelight. Don't believe me? Watch the episode, I beg you. The object is cylindrical (round at the edges ) and I do believe I remember seeing some kind of insignia on the stagelight, and call me crazy (no really, you can, cause I am! ) but I think that was the insignia of PARADIGM CITY! If so, then perhaps Paradigm ---

OH! An epiphany!

Look at this idea:

Paradigm 40 years ago were afraid of the "reports" given by their satelites of the approach of FOREIGN robots (the army of Big Os, Faus, Duos, and Big Venus decending onto earth) so they created the dome to protect themselves, but the Bigs got through and started to reck havoc (Roger's "tomato" dreams).

Well? I know, I need to work on a FEW details, but thats me statement, and me is gonna stick to it!

Final note, P.D.Q. Beck, Schwartzwald IS the coolest! ALL PARADIGM BOW TO THE CRAZY MUMMY DUDE WITH THE LIGHTER! YEAH!

The presences of a satalite was kinda confusing. But let's not also confuse that fact, that though there were girders above the stage of Paradigm City it is possible that the satilite fall though the girders and no one know about the girders. However, it would have indicated that girders existed above the city if the satalite has struct the girders. Remember that the satalite was about the size of Big-O but the girders was hundeds of time larger than any big.

But that leads us to a physics problem. The satelite had to have some linear momentum to be traveling at the angle it was, or if it was attached to the girders it would have fallen straight down. So that sugesest that it was in orbit. Which then suggests that Paradigm City was infact on a spherical surface. So then, what the hell was the stage being planar at the very end. Though, this is all contengent on the fact that reality doesn't change from one episode to another. The presences of the satalite and the very end sugest that reality does change to that major degree but reality staying the same is just as plausable.

Here is food for thougt...So take the premiss that Paradigm City in infact on a spherical surface, most of us would assume that the City was on the outer side of the sphere. What if the city was on the inner side.

In response to your post Mattartist I rewatched the episode and did not see any insignia on it at all, paradigm city or otherwise. Also, it does not look the same as the stagelights revealed in act 25 and 26. It has no reflectors, while you can clearly see them on the super-dome stagelights (see the second page of the image gallery for act 25).

As for your theory, I always thought that the superdome was the outer wall of the virtual world and that nothing existed outside of it. That is why when Big Venus began erasing the currect Paradigm the super-dome was replaced by ceiling. I don't believe that the super dome was built by any of the people in the various resets, but I guess it is open to speculation.

Ooh... (scratches head) Sorry, dude. I guess me memory isn't what it used to be...

Now, I believe (in my weird perseption of Big O) that SOMEBODY built that dome. Now, we have several variables:

-Angel/her "divine" powers, could be a holographic projection itself!

-Paradigm City citizens from a past where they had memories, to protect themselves perhaps?

-the Bigs even, they could've had intuitive actions to create the dome from Venus's orders, cause clearly Venus is calling the shots in the battle of Paradigm in Roger's dreams/flashbacks.

Finally, one note: WHY did Roscoe Fitzgerald have those memories, and how did he preserve those memories? If memories are downloaded to a disc, can they be preserved? If so, could that be the only way?

And, if so, could Timothy Wainwright be an android also? He had memories of the past, he could've had the EXACT same CD process done with his memories as the other senators did for Roscoe.

Just something fer you to bite into, I'm going to bed... Sleepy sleepy...

SLEEPY!

I've always thought that paradigm was a program - not an actual stage or even an actual city. There is a real paradigm SOMEWHERE, but whether it exists or not any longer is open to debate. I'm taking that from Alex's comment that paradigm city was built to be "the last stage where mankind could continue to preserve its humanity." So, even though it's random and doesn't always make sense, I think a lot of what goes on in the paradigm program has basis in reality, a.k.a. the "event." Maybe people are just being kept in suspended animation until the world is capable of being reinhabited again, and the paradigm program is a way to make sure they'll be mentally ready to accept that when it comes out.

Or, I could be completely wrong. I honestly hadn't given it a lot of thought. But yes, there is definitely writing on the thing that descends in that episode, and I'd always assumed it was a stage-light too.

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Originally posted by Ollen70 I've always thought that paradigm was a program - not an actual stage or even an actual city. There is a real paradigm SOMEWHERE, but whether it exists or not any longer is open to debate. I'm taking that from Alex's comment that paradigm city was built to be "the last stage where mankind could continue to preserve its humanity." So, even though it's random and doesn't always make sense, I think a lot of what goes on in the paradigm program has basis in reality, a.k.a. the "event." Maybe people are just being kept in suspended animation until the world is capable of being reinhabited again, and the paradigm program is a way to make sure they'll be mentally ready to accept that when it comes out. Or, I could be completely wrong. I honestly hadn't given it a lot of thought. But yes, there is definitely writing on the thing that descends in that episode, and I'd always assumed it was a stage-light too.

Sounds A LOT like the Matrix. I'm not saying that its not bad, its actually pretty good, but I always assumed that Paradigm City was a closed off computer simulation of a city and but closed off, I mean separated by the rest of the world. If even that exists anymore...

Also, I have to ask; why do so many people dislike the "Day of the Advent" episode? I actually don't find it to be that bad so if someone can explain that to me...
Peace.

The Big O and Matrix were both created in the year 1999. Thus maybe the scenarists of the Big O took the storyline of the matrix?

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Originally posted by samirsouleyman The Big O and Matrix were both created in the year 1999. Thus maybe the scenarists of the Big O took the storyline of the matrix?

Extremely unlikely...and by extremely unlikely I mean "nope".

We can look in retrospect on Big O and Matrix and see similarities, but they are most likely (and most probably) sheer coincidence.

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Originally posted by Ollen70 I've always thought that paradigm was a program - not an actual stage or even an actual city. There is a real paradigm SOMEWHERE, but whether it exists or not any longer is open to debate. I'm taking that from Alex's comment that paradigm city was built to be "the last stage where mankind could continue to preserve its humanity." So, even though it's random and doesn't always make sense, I think a lot of what goes on in the paradigm program has basis in reality, a.k.a. the "event." Maybe people are just being kept in suspended animation until the world is capable of being reinhabited again, and the paradigm program is a way to make sure they'll be mentally ready to accept that when it comes out. Or, I could be completely wrong. I honestly hadn't given it a lot of thought. But yes, there is definitely writing on the thing that descends in that episode, and I'd always assumed it was a stage-light too.

Don't forget that the villains TALK as if they know all the answers, but they're usually full of it. Eugene Grant thought he was the Creator, but he was just a loonie. Schwarzwald thought he had discovered the truth, but he was just a loonie. Vera thought she understood what was going on, but you'll notice that nothing she did ever worked. Alex was just the same. He knew just enough about how the world really worked to be dangerous.

Gordon seemed to actually know stuff. Roger and Dastun didn't know, and knew they didn't know.

All of the characters we care about (Roger, Dorothy, Angel, Dastun, Norman, for example) seem to believe that their own actions have real consequences and that everyone matters, even the "worthless scum" outside the domes. The villains act is if nothing is real but their own ambitions or desires -- Eugene Grant and Alex Rosewater thought they were gods, for instance.

Gordon Rosewater is always cryptic, but I think he never lies in the show. He also seemed to think the the people were real -- otherwise, why bother trying to influence the Director?

It's usually a good idea to watch what the heroes and wise geezers in a show believe. That's usually what the writers believe, too.

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Originally posted by A Clockwork Tomato quote: Originally posted by Ollen70 I've always thought that paradigm was a program - not an actual stage or even an actual city. There is a real paradigm SOMEWHERE, but whether it exists or not any longer is open to debate. I'm taking that from Alex's comment that paradigm city was built to be "the last stage where mankind could continue to preserve its humanity." So, even though it's random and doesn't always make sense, I think a lot of what goes on in the paradigm program has basis in reality, a.k.a. the "event." Maybe people are just being kept in suspended animation until the world is capable of being reinhabited again, and the paradigm program is a way to make sure they'll be mentally ready to accept that when it comes out. Or, I could be completely wrong. I honestly hadn't given it a lot of thought. But yes, there is definitely writing on the thing that descends in that episode, and I'd always assumed it was a stage-light too. Don't forget that the villains TALK as if they know all the answers, but they're usually full of it. Eugene Grant thought he was the Creator, but he was just a loonie. Schwarzwald thought he had discovered the truth, but he was just a loonie. Vera thought she understood what was going on, but you'll notice that nothing she did ever worked. Alex was just the same. He knew just enough about how the world really worked to be dangerous. Gordon seemed to actually know stuff. Roger and Dastun didn't know, and knew they didn't know. All of the characters we care about (Roger, Dorothy, Angel, Dastun, Norman, for example) seem to believe that their own actions have real consequences and that everyone matters, even the "worthless scum" outside the domes. The villains act is if nothing is real but their own ambitions or desires -- Eugene Grant and Alex Rosewater thought they were gods, for instance. Gordon Rosewater is always cryptic, but I think he never lies in the show. He also seemed to think the the people were real -- otherwise, why bother trying to influence the Director? It's usually a good idea to watch what the heroes and wise geezers in a show believe. That's usually what the writers believe, too.

That is so damn good, ACT! But I'm sure that I agree with Schwartzwold being a loonie. I mean, I know the boy flew one over the cuckoo's nest but in Act 25, he appeared to have "found" what he was looking for. As for everyone else, its just as you said. Eugene was talking some big game but in reality he really didn't know jack. And Vera was talking some real big game in Act 25 but Gordon tore that apart like he did that tomato soup he was eating. And then there's Alex. Don't get me started on Alex. So, I guess if want to know anything, it seems like Gordon Rosewater is the ONLY one who knows what he's actually talking about.

It's true that Roger, Dastun, Dorothy, and the rest of the usual suspects thought that their own actions were epic enough to change the world (at least to a degree, Roger's were) but I kind of had a sense that they didn't care about the "foriegners" outside of Paradigm City. They did care about outside the domes as the ones inside such as Alex didn't care about them or think of them to be any part of Paradigm City as Alex said in this episode were discussing.

In a way, Gordon Rosewater is like the world's parent because he directed or oversaw the tomato experiment process and cares a lot about all the tomatoes, even those that weren't his cherised tomatoes but were eventually born to be dominuses like Roger or the ones that got theirs in Act 13.

Also, I guess the villains act that nothing real because in a sense, it isn't real... or that's the indication that Big Venus portrays in Act 26 at least.
Peace.