Is Schwartzwald REALLY dead? Or is it simply -- unTRUTHful?

(playing "False" from Big O soundtrack)
Hello... Welcome to my thread, paradigm dogs.... My name is Mattartist, and though it is not german, or even -- Schwartzwald-y-ish, I assure you, this will raise as many brows, if not MORE than old Schwartz ever did....

Achem... Cool, got your attention! Cough, thats a hard voice to do, Schwartzwald must have some acute form of larangitus or something..

Anyways, this thread is to reveal somethings that I had deduced (from reading a lot of Sherlock Holmes books ) Schwartzwald had discovered... Of course I have done slight speculations (dont we all), taking several points from my fan Season Three (dont we all try to do these too?), so bear with me. Okay?

(Playing "False" from Big O soundtrack)
Alright then, follow me to the undeniable truth, detezins of Paradigm City -- or anywhere from which you live... HAHAHAHAHAAAHH! (cough) Excuse me...(smiles wickedly)

Later, dogs...

I find it hard to believe after getting disfigured from the Archetype (read a great fanwrite on that, wish I remembered who wrote it) , then again during the battle with Archetype, Then again getting thrashed with Big Duo.....i DOUBT he died wandering in the desert. I mean come on. This guy obviously is a genius, deranged maybe but still, he is not stupid, I imagine he is resourcefull, and honestly one of the greatest characters ive encounterd.

For him just to "die" as a means to an end.....i dont accept it. I think that was left open on purpose...

Lets takkkkkkkkkkkkke Mac Guyver for example....how many times did Murddock die? And he ALWAYS came back....because he was needed... the hero would be incomplete without him.

I dont know.... Just for one man to find out so much, to have it change his life so drasticly... only to perish wandering....nope...if anything... maybe he wanders for 40 years in the desert, only to come BACK to Paradigm City Anew, its populace again unaware of its beginings nor caring about them....NOW THAT WOULD PISS HIM OFF!!!!

he is the ghost/revenant of micheal seebach.

It goes like this.

micheal seebach was a reporter for paradigm press a long time ago(over 40 years ago).He then started to researching the truth of paradigm city.He then finds the archetype(As shown in Act 14) and while trying to awaken it he is burned by the same flashback as rodger has in RD(the fire one. he even talks about it in The enemy is another big).apparently he discovered the metropolis book and read it.after that he began calling himself schwarzwald. he walks in the desert and dies(based on angel's comments in Leviathan).His ghost(schwarzwald)returns to destroy to paradigm city.

The Schwarzwald ghost came from Gordon Rosewaters's nightmarish original to Angel's amnesia version.Were Gordon destroys NYC and the fleet of Rodger Smith Robot piloted bigs they were destroyed by Big Venus(one of which was seen dead underwater on act 26).Big Venus causes a shift in the planet's poles causing huge climate changes.Everyone who was a tomatoe can be able pilot a big IF it picks them because they have the memories of the Rodger smith robots.Big Duo picks schwarzwald and not alan. So he has ultimate control of it.


I think when gordon made all the tomatoes leave paradigm city he also made micheal seebach leave.When they started remembering gordon's nightmare version they became what we see now.

Muuhhaahhaa! You've fell into my thread! Ahem, well --

Just forget about that earlier statement...

NOW, onto the meat. Xylem, you brought up one VERRY interesting comment. It was this: "he walks in the desert and dies(BASED ON ANGEL'S COMMENTS IN LEVIATHAN!!!!!)

Now to take a strip from my fan fiction:
---------
Roger stops midway down the corridor, and then it hits him like a megadeus crashing sideways into his skull.

"Wait a minute.... YOU'RE DEAD!"

Schwartzwald turned around, still somewhat unfazed by the Negotiator's unruly comment.

"Really, Negotiator? And, pray tell, where you did you unearth THAT truth?" asked the mummified reporter, walking closer and closer to Roger until he could smell the Negotiator's hurried breaths.

"From my friend, Angel... I don't think you'd know her..."

Schwartzwald's eyes lit up.

"Angel, you say..." Schwartzwald paused, as if he knew her, yet was trying to picture her in his mind's eye.

Then he looked at Roger and smirked.

"Truly, Negotiator, you shouldn't believe everything you hear..."

Then he turned his back to the awestruck Negotiator, and continued down the corridor, giggling softly at such thoughts...
-------------

Well, theres my point for now, great comments everybody!

BE SURE TO SPREAD KNOWLEDGE OF THIS THREAD! MUUHAHAHA! (cough!) Erm, yeah.

Later

One of the bigest hints often missed (a far s I can see) is that Schwarzwald means Black Forest, a area of woodland in Germany, thus realising that other contries DO exist outside of Paradigm.

http://comp.uark.edu/~acogbil/Schwarzwald%203.jpg

Okay, I'm gonna take a stab at this. We did hear Scharwald's voice at the end of Act 25, when Big Duo was rising into (then crashing) into, the "Super-Structure" above Paradigm City. Of course, Alan Gabriel had just been piloting it not too much earlier, right? Well, we saw first hand what happened to Alan in Big Duo, as well as Alex in Big Fau, and what almost happened to Roger at the bottom of the "sea". Plugs, Johnny-Numonic style (I woulda made a "Matrix" reference, but come on, that's TOO easy!!). So anyways, my own lil theory is this: Schwarzwald's consciousness was absorbed into Big Duo, effectively making them one being. Big Duo then dropped Seebach's body in the desert, thus Spawning the belief that he was dead. I think that Duo still needed a human (cyborg?) pilot to be fully operational, but Scharzwald became, in essence, his "core memory". Schwarzwald disdained the ideas and methods that Alan Gabriel was trying to impose, and decided to eliminate him in the most effective way possible: Absorption of Alan's body, then dispellation of the corpse. Am I even close?

I think this season 2 we see was just a shadow of what happened before 40 years ago.

40 years ago everything was fine. NYC was a bussling city like it is in real life. when one day reporter micheal seebach(who existed before 40 years ago only) who had written the article "paradigm shift" in Gordon's nightmare verision.When he(as shown in the comic on act 14) discovers the archetype(notice his clothes are not ripped and he has no bandages plus the archetype looks somewhat different.)and then he finds the nightmare versions of metropolis(backed up by him in act 25 know about the nightmare version of metropolis and then he goes insane and incites anti-american sentiment.The corrupt NYC is the same as Paradigm City.Foreigners using megaduece technology make foriegn megadeuces.American using technology salvaged from micheal seebach's archetype makes the 3 Bigs. After all the injustice in NYC(think back to episode about the ghost megadeuce and the cop) the foriegners invade NYC with megadeuces.America counters with the 3 Bigs piloted by rodger smith andriods similar technology was used to make dorthy(explaining why she can interface with bigs and why they want "pick" her as thier pilot like the archetype and Fau did).The Americans win but are nearly destroyed by a fourth Big.Rodger Smith is tomatoe(memories tooken from one and put in his head) of a rodger smith andriod.Dorthy is a rodger smith andriod but changed to simulate Dr.Wayneright's daughter (seeing how Dr. wayneright new how to make dorthy he probably was in charge of the andriod manufactured pilots of bigs with Beck Gold as the manufacturerer/mechanic of the Bigs).Alex(like the rest of the tomatoes) think they are people they are not. They think they are the person who they got their memories from.Alex is a clone of Gordon. Alex thinks he's gordon from when he conquered NYC and rebuilt it.Gordon also has memories from a rodger smith robot.Too bad his arrogance kept him from being seen as a viable pilot.Both roger and seebach wanted to find the truth Alex wanted to use Fau to recreate what his dad did.When alex sees the "truth" of the artificial super dome and then sees that he's a tomatoe. Fau then reads his Rodger smith andriod number and works fine from there(It merges with him because he has memories in him. That what the megadueces want.).Then he starts acting like his dad used to.Kind of like how Vera became a terrorist with a german accent when earlier(Act 26) in the flash back she has an american accent. My opinion of what RD means is Rodger Driod or Rodger the Dominus seeing how he's a tomatoe of a rodger andriod and the rodger andriods are megadeuces of Bigs.

The Rodger Smith andriod died and never got to negotiate with Big Venus the first time.Big Venus then reseted to world.Rodger Smith the tomatoe did negotiate with Big Venus on act 26 so the world was not reseted.


Michael seebach(after being kicked out of paradigm city like the tomatoes)wonders in the desert and dies.His ghost schwarzwald after wondering the desert for 40 years(prophets?) still wants to destroy paradigm like his former self wanted to.Even though Schwarzwald is a ghost he can't die die until his purpose for being on this plane is finished(showing the truth paradigm city).When he shows the superdome his soul completes its purpose and leaves. Alex comes to one truth(that the world is fake and a stage) when he sees the superdome.Thats when Big Fau reads his Rodger andriod number and chooses him as the pilot.

quote:

Originally posted by Mattartist Muuhhaahhaa! You've fell into my thread! Ahem, well -- Just forget about that earlier statement... NOW, onto the meat. Xylem, you brought up one VERRY interesting comment. It was this: "he walks in the desert and dies(BASED ON ANGEL'S COMMENTS IN LEVIATHAN!!!!!) Now to take a strip from my fan fiction: --------- Roger stops midway down the corridor, and then it hits him like a megadeus crashing sideways into his skull. "Wait a minute.... YOU'RE DEAD!" Schwartzwald turned around, still somewhat unfazed by the Negotiator's unruly comment. "Really, Negotiator? And, pray tell, where you did you unearth THAT truth?" asked the mummified reporter, walking closer and closer to Roger until he could smell the Negotiator's hurried breaths. "From my friend, Angel... I don't think you'd know her..." Schwartzwald's eyes lit up. "Angel, you say..." Schwartzwald paused, as if he knew her, yet was trying to picture her in his mind's eye. Then he looked at Roger and smirked. "Truly, Negotiator, you shouldn't believe everything you hear..." Then he turned his back to the awestruck Negotiator, and continued down the corridor, giggling softly at such thoughts... ------------- Well, theres my point for now, great comments everybody! BE SURE TO SPREAD KNOWLEDGE OF THIS THREAD! MUUHAHAHA! (cough!) Erm, yeah. Later

One does not quote fanfiction when discussing Crispy's vital status (in a canonical sense at least), much less your OWN. The only exception is if youre Konaka. But then it really isnt fanfiction...as it is the Words of God from the Lord Himself.

I gotta say, I've seen Big O for a couple years now, but I still don't quite know yet if he's died or stayed alive. Some day I'll know >< But Mattartist, could you give me a link of your fanfiction? (sorry that's off subject) I don't like to think of Schwarzwald as dead, but its best to know the truth than fantasizing he's got a beating heart...

The topic of Schwartzwald is a very confusing one. Think back to Act 24-25 when they attempt to make you think he is still alive in Big Duo. (The part that confused me most was when he went up into the stagelights talking as if he was inside it at the time, then smashed into the light. Surely this was present tense and not somthing he said in the past.) The way they did it made it wise open to speculation on if he truely was dead. Angel is not the most honest gal out there.

MsPheonix, I haven't even finished, let alone put it UP on the world wide web! However, I will announce that in my Season 3, Schwartzwald is NOT dead, and rather, his heart is beating slowly, most because of the smoke inhalation... PAAHHAHAHA!

Sorry, that was a bad pun.

BUT in any case, I'm simply displaying LOGICAL discussion as to whether Schwartz is living or dead. I DO SO believe that Angel was lying, or at the very least didn't TRULY know the finer nuances of the "GOD" of Paradigm City, or at least she doesn't in my story.

Also, this is another way I can promote stuff about Schwartz from my story, so BLEGH! (oooh)



Sorry... I don't wanna cause a fuss, I'm just here to tell some stuff about Schwartzwald, and about what happens (at least I believe) to him after Act 26, along with everybody else in Paradigm, after careful analization from the series. I mean, I don't wanna start a blood feud, and I'm too LAZY to hold a grudge! So yeah. Thats me story, and me stickin' to it. (I love Country. Yee-haw!)

And to (possibly) clear up the stuff with Duo and Schwartz in Act 24 (The Big Fight), Duo was a unit to Schwartzwald to remain active in Paradigm, without having access, which was denied him (FOR MYSTERIOUS REASONS, ONE HAVING TO DO WITH THE DIRECTOR... ) and therefore was helping Roger out by eliminating Alan...

Or did he REALLY eliminate him...? Thats an even BIGGER question, Mr. Negotiator...(evil laugh ensues)

Erm, yeah. LATER!

The Truth shall not be silenced, it simply finds a new voice.

I stayed about 100ft away from Black Forest, when I went to Germany/Switzerland with my Ex. Very cool and mysterious!

quote:

The Truth shall not be silenced, it simply finds a new voice.

Awesome saying that is! *wanders of thinking about how to be a voice...*

back on topic


schwarzwald died before the way series. When we he was walking in the desert that was michael seebach 40 years ago that got expelled by gordon rosewater along with all the tomatoes.

his soul comes back as schwartzwald 40 years later. thats why Angel knows about him.

I don't perfess(sp?) to know WHY he was out in the desert but axidental or not he awoke the leviathen, and that was definately in the presant Paradigm.

quote:

Originally posted by Xylem back on topic schwarzwald died before the way series. When we he was walking in the desert that was michael seebach 40 years ago that got expelled by gordon rosewater along with all the tomatoes. his soul comes back as schwartzwald 40 years later. thats why Angel knows about him.

That's really weird, creepy, and hard to believe but from the episode of Leviathan and at the end with Roger, Dorothy, and Angel, then your explaination explains what really happened to Schwartzwold and Michael Seebach. Angel said that he died a long, long time ago, before he wrote the letters and before he found and went crazy in Big Duo.

Peace.

Oh, okay, but one thing:

How could Micheal Seebach have been expelled from Paradigm WEARING THE BANDAGES?!?!!

Um, damn....

That's a very good question. It may be looking into a bit too much but that is actually something to think about. I'll get my people in on that...
(The kid's on to us. The jig's up! Make a break for it...)

To me, what Angel and said and meant was that from the previous 40 years ago or the last Paradigm, Michael Seebach started to look for the truth and became insane from it and eventually transformed into this new being known as Schwartzwold. I guess when we see Schwartzwold in our series of Big O, its him as a specture repeating the same things and same events that he embarked on in the last version of Paradigm City.

It's a little out there but that's what it could mean, possibly? Think about that.
Peace.

Am I EVER late...

quote:

Originally posted by Mattartist BUT in any case, I'm simply displaying LOGICAL discussion as to whether Schwartz is living or dead. I DO SO believe that Angel was lying, or at the very least didn't TRULY know the finer nuances of the "GOD" of Paradigm City, or at least she doesn't in my story. Also, this is another way I can promote stuff about Schwartz from my story, so BLEGH! (oooh) Sorry... I don't wanna cause a fuss, I'm just here to tell some stuff about Schwartzwald, and about what happens (at least I believe) to him after Act 26, along with everybody else in Paradigm, after careful analization from the series. I mean, I don't wanna start a blood feud, and I'm too LAZY to hold a grudge! So yeah. Thats me story, and me stickin' to it. (I love Country. Yee-haw!)

Angel was not lying. In fact, it is the truth. She is the "Director", and in effect God. If Angel didn't care for Seebach, he might as well have never existed. But her own confusion, in my own opinion, allowed Seebach to go back and forth from existence and nothingness.

What the blond sez goes, in Paradigm.