Noir

Sharpshooter005 03-29-2007 09:34 PM
Also they keep mentioning the black hand in the show, or at least the subtitles in the ones I saw periodically referred to noir by that, which is funny since...yeah the group that killed archduke ferdinand went by that name too (or the guy who did it was a member of said group). I've always wondered if this was somehow like...an intentional reference or if someone just went "I think 'the black hand' would be a cool name lets go with that"

edit: Remember how if you saw madlax, you probably went "this seems really, really similar to noir.."

Apparently thats because this is some sort of trilogy of similar series, and now theres a third one

So yeah, more stylized violence. Neat (I hope)
R. Daniel Olk 01 04-03-2007 11:50 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Heavy Metal Instro
Noir is French for black.


*Pats Heavy Metal Instro on the head*

The burning note in French, flashed at the beginning of the episode, reads:

Noir, it's the ancient name of the _ (covered by karaoke-text!)
Two young girls who reign [over] (improperly conjugated and lacking the preposition) the world
Of death.
[They] protect the childrens' peace
Beneath their black hands.
(This is an incomplete sentence)
The man of men
The love of loves
The sin of sins
The saga announces to the sinner
The soldier is with the truth.
>------------------------------------------------------------------<


I could barely stomach the first two episodes. Very angsty and melodramatic, but without the edginess or machinery of Evangelion.

Roughly half the first episode was dead space: still poses, a motionless close-up of a character's low-budget face, or unsuspenseful walking around. Also much trite dialogue, and no buildup or foreshadowing to the Generic Assassins Horde (GAH!) that just appears out of nowhere.

--> Boring.

Finally, I'm not a big fan of incompetent assassins (adults in business suits are evil AND stupid!), combined with little girls and thin women, who toss brutes around a room with acrobatics, without even batting an immaculate eyelash before or during the fight.

--> Fake.

But download the soundtrack. Unlike the rest of the series, it's quality. The opening also throws some clever tricks around. (Although the sillhouette of Mireille throwing herself back in ecstacy is most likely unrelated to the show.)
Sharpshooter005 04-04-2007 01:21 AM
quote:
a motionless close-up of a character's low-budget face


Hello, numerous parts of evangelion (though I have no idea about the budget).

Oh wait, my mistake, evangelion also periodically had close-ups of dripping water.

quote:
trite dialogue,


This, and nearly everything else you described was done in spades by gunslinger girls, except in greater quantity and it was more irritating.

The fact gunslinger girls didn't even have the excuse noir did (which was that noir was very obviously just a series of set-piece gunfights) and attempted to shoehorn in this utterly forgettable and wildly uninteresting plot didn't help either...it was like someone tried to merge the whole "human conciousness meets mechanical body" element of ghost in the shell with an article they'd read about child soldiers. It just didn't even begin to work.
Nine Kuze 04-04-2007 10:42 AM
quote:
Originally posted by R. Daniel Olk 01
I could barely stomach the first two episodes. Very angsty and melodramatic, but without the edginess or machinery of Evangelion.

This... is a joke right? Evangelion is nothing but angsty and melodramatic. Actually, calling it that doesn't even give it justice in those regards. And how is Evangelion edgy and not just... plainly annoying most of the time? Really, I'd like to know.

quote:
Originally posted by Sharpshooter005
quote:
a motionless close-up of a character's low-budget face


Hello, numerous parts of evangelion (though I have no idea about the budget).

Oh wait, my mistake, evangelion also periodically had close-ups of dripping water.

And don't forget about closeups of the hand in dramatic poses and fashion. Also, in some cases, with some man-juice on it as well.

quote:
Originally posted by Sharpshooter005
quote:
trite dialogue,


This, and nearly everything else you described was done in spades by gunslinger girls, except in greater quantity and it was more irritating.

The fact gunslinger girls didn't even have the excuse noir did (which was that noir was very obviously just a series of set-piece gunfights) and attempted to shoehorn in this utterly forgettable and wildly uninteresting plot didn't help either...it was like someone tried to merge the whole "human conciousness meets mechanical body" element of ghost in the shell with an article they'd read about child soldiers. It just didn't even begin to work.

GG is alright, but you do bring up a good point about the substance, or lack there of in this case. I still haven't had a chance to see Noir, but from what I read and looked-up I'd like to. Also, I think GG works but like you mention, the whole absence of the plot really hurts it in the long run.
Peace.
R. Daniel Olk 01 04-04-2007 11:35 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Nine XXVI
quote:
Originally posted by R. Daniel Olk 01
I could barely stomach the first two episodes. Very angsty and melodramatic, but without the edginess or machinery of Evangelion.

This... is a joke right? Evangelion is nothing but angsty and melodramatic. Actually, calling it that doesn't even give it justice in those regards. And how is Evangelion edgy and not just... plainly annoying most of the time?


Evangelion's saving graces:

Edginess - Has all sorts of weird and unsettling things happening onscreen. Fun! Keeps the brain on its toes. That even goes for the... er, haha, yeah... even for the opening of the first movie.

Machinery - Has the whole epic and enormous technological tilt. Fun!

That's what makes up for the whole absurdity of the characters remaining so closed-up and antagonistic towards one other throughout the series. I mean, wouldn't it make sense for NERV to have had at least one psychiatrist on call? Oh Well

quote:
Really, I'd like to know.

Well that was unnecessary. Roll Eyes
Nine Kuze 04-04-2007 12:04 PM
quote:
Originally posted by R. Daniel Olk 01
quote:
Really, I'd like to know.

Well that was unnecessary. Roll Eyes

How so? I don't think its unnecessary at all. Evangelion has an interest premise but its so flawed in my opinon because it tries to be way too edgy, daring and psychological but it only manages to stumble on all those fronts and then some.

The reasoning for being edgy is just shoving a bunch of "weird and unsettling things up on the screen" is flawed in the way its directed and presented. Sharpie knows what's up here but the mind-rape scene with Asuka is pulled off in such a ludicrous fashion (MENSTRATION FLASHED AT THE RAPE IN NEON COLORS!) that it accidently comes off to be quite hilarious. That's just one example and Evangelion has a lot more material to be used on those regards.

The machine aspect I can give you more of but one complaint I keep hearing about Evangelion is how the Evas aren't even machines or mecha but more toward bioenginerred humans with souls. But being in the future, Evangelion does a decent job of showing the technogical notion of its world so yeah.

Regarding Noir again, I have another question; is Chloe more along the lines of a villain or just the supporting character?
Peace.
Ace378 04-04-2007 02:40 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Nine XXVI
Regarding Noir again, I have another question; is Chloe more along the lines of a villain or just the supporting character?
Peace.


Chloe is more of an elite henchman. If you really want to know where she stands think about a simple hierarchy of enemies: you have simple henchmen at the bottom then you have the elite henchmen (such as personal bodyguards, main villain’s right-hand man, etc) who are well trained in their fields then you have the main villain. In this hierarchy Chloe is an elite henchman.
Nine Kuze 04-04-2007 02:48 PM
Thanks Ace378, but she is a villain nonetheless right? Or is she more along the lines of a supporting character of sorts?

Its somewhere in my sig, but I need this for... reason. Yeah.
Peace.
Heavy Metal Instro 04-04-2007 02:50 PM
quote:
Originally posted by R. Daniel Olk 01
quote:
Originally posted by Heavy Metal Instro
Noir is French for black.


*Pats Heavy Metal Instro on the head*

The burning note in French, flashed at the beginning of the episode, reads:





I was just saying, I haven't seen this show. It's too cool for my TV.
R. Daniel Olk 01 04-04-2007 04:05 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Nine XXVI
quote:
Originally posted by R. Daniel Olk 01
quote:
Really, I'd like to know.

Well that was unnecessary. Roll Eyes

How so?


I thought you were being sarcastic.

quote:
(MENSTRATION FLASHED AT THE RAPE IN NEON COLORS!)

Hmm. I admit, the only parts of Evangelion I've watched more than once are the two movies... I still think those movies pack artistic punch.

As for the show, you seem to remember more oddities than I do. If I watched Eva a second time through, then maybe my I would dislike the show. Or maybe the fact that I don't plan on watching it a second time should be reason enough for me to reassess my own opinion.

>------------------------------------------------------------<


About Noir:

Are there any episodes with really outstanding fight scenes? I remember someone mentioned a "Soldat Installation," earlier, which sounds like a villain's secret base if I've ever heard of one...
Sharpshooter005 04-04-2007 08:35 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Nine XXVI
Thanks Ace378, but she is a villain nonetheless right? Or is she more along the lines of a supporting character of sorts?

Its somewhere in my sig, but I need this for... reason. Yeah.
Peace.


Antagonist is maybe more accurate. But yeah basically.

quote:
Edginess - Has all sorts of weird and unsettling things happening onscreen.


Evangelion wasn't unsettling. Paranoia Agent..you're getting into unsettling territory there.
Nine Kuze 04-04-2007 09:19 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Sharpshooter005
quote:
Edginess - Has all sorts of weird and unsettling things happening onscreen.


Evangelion wasn't unsettling. Paranoia Agent..you're getting into unsettling territory there.

Hell yes, Paranoia Agent completely flips the book on Evangelion as far as unsettling and strange goes.

Hell, the opening theme alone is unsettling by itself.

EDIT: Oh and thanks for the help on Chloe there, Sharpie.
Peace.
Sharpshooter005 04-04-2007 10:29 PM
quote:
Originally posted by R. Daniel Olk 01
That's what makes up for the whole absurdity of the characters remaining so closed-up and antagonistic towards one other throughout the series. I mean, wouldn't it make sense for NERV to have had at least one psychiatrist on call? Oh Well


I dont know, that part didn't require too much suspension of disbelief. I mean NERV is supposedly like a U.N. agency or something, and we all know the united nations is pretty incompetent.

quote:
Are there any episodes with really outstanding fight scenes?


A number of them. The whole shows pretty much about those.
R. Daniel Olk 01 04-04-2007 11:46 PM
There's gotta be a couple that stick out in your mind. They're not all stellar... For example, the fight scene in 01 lasted only maybe twenty seconds... 02 went a bit longer but had no acrobatics... so there's got to be a couple that really leave you satisfied above the rest, right?
Ace378 04-05-2007 02:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by R. Daniel Olk 01
There's gotta be a couple that stick out in your mind. They're not all stellar... For example, the fight scene in 01 lasted only maybe twenty seconds... 02 went a bit longer but had no acrobatics... so there's got to be a couple that really leave you satisfied above the rest, right?


Thats kinda the thing about Noir really, the good fight scenes are pretty much held only in one part of the episode. The rest is mostly story. (Which I don't mind really, because the whole episode the suspense is building up as your waiting for that killer fight scene then bam you hear the awesome music start up and you know its time for some great action.) That said there are alot of pretty cool fights. I could name one or two off the top of my head but it really would be a spoiler if I did so. And since im not sure if you wanted to see the series I wouldn't want to ruin it for you. But for anybody who has seen the series (or for those of you who just want to read about some of the fights...) 3 of my favorite fights are:

1:
spoiler (highlight to read):
When they (Noir) are tricked into taking down a target who really was only baiting them. The ensuing fight in the dark and how kirika handles it is pretty badass.


2:
spoiler (highlight to read):
Not so much a fight but when Kirika takes down the assasin, who is trying to kill Mireille, with a toy truck that was pretty crazy.


3:
spoiler (highlight to read):
Of course the ultimate spoiler but also one of the best fights I think is Kirika vs Mireille at the end of the series. (and for those who haven't seen the show who wins is another spoiler but one which I shall not give away Tongue ).
Sharpshooter005 04-05-2007 03:02 PM
quote:
Originally posted by R. Daniel Olk 01
There's gotta be a couple that stick out in your mind. They're not all stellar... For example, the fight scene in 01 lasted only maybe twenty seconds... 02 went a bit longer but had no acrobatics... so there's got to be a couple that really leave you satisfied above the rest, right?


To put it another way, I haven't watched the show in years, I only own the second dvd and I can't really remember specifics.

The one I remember as more lackluster than usual though is this one episode where they're in some tropical locale, and it's largely just kirika standing perfectly still gunning down people with an assault rifle while wearing a large hat.

Also the episode with the old man and the cat didn't have a ton going on in it in terms of the killing.
StevieV019 04-29-2007 01:16 AM
The ambush episode where Mirielle and Kirika are taking people out in the Island Jungle is a stellar fight scene. Pretty much the whole episode is about M & K tracking down their target but realizing they're up against a bunch of agents trying to track them.

As for the series...I think its the measuring bar for assassin series'. I think its better than Madlax, as pretty much Noir is the basis behind it...

As for Chloe being a villain, technically M & K are villains as well, but Im not going to spoil how or what the twist is exactly...since not everyone has seen it all...

Check it out...I dont think you'll be disappointed...
Sharpshooter005 04-29-2007 11:49 PM
quote:
I think its better than Madlax


This reminds me, I have madlax on a bunch of CDs and I probably should actually go watch it sometime..assuming I can find the copies of it scattered around my room.