Too many unanswered questions remain without a Season 3

DorothyFan1 06-09-2005 05:33 AM
Shall I name the ways? I think I've plumbed pretty much all there is from Act 26 "The Show Must Go On" as far as the clues are concerned from my perspective. But like the debris that's scattered in the wind...there are too many questions that lay unanswered and there is an empty feeling we may never get a Season 3 to solve them. And that will be the tragedy of people who believe in the visions of Big O...but will never get the satisfaction of seeing it live on.

Here are some of my questions about those unaswered problems that remain regarding the series.

1. Why is Angel the one who's memories Roger sees in Act 26?

2. How can it be Angel when there is no inkling prior to Act 26 that she's that important to the series? Why the sudden twist in the end for?

3. Why does Roger lie to Angel at the end of Act 26 when he claims he doesn't know who he really is?

4. If Dorothy is not a Dominus...then why was she able to power up Big O on several occassions? If we keep assuming she's not a Dominus...Big O or any other Megadeus wouldn't have bothered to even flash the announcement on the screen "Cast in the name of God, ye not guilty" at all.

5. Why does Angel create Dorothy to be Roger's "assistant" for? Why is Dorothy so necessary for Roger Smith and the whole Big O mythology?

6. If Paradigm City is a hologram...why is it always reset after 40 years?

7. Why is Dorothy standing next to Angel in the last shot of Act 26 after the Reset?

8. If we never get a Season 3 to air...why can't the Big O be revived via comic books?
StevieV019 06-09-2005 08:43 AM
*sigh*

Not everything seen on the screen is meant to be taken literally. A lot of the questions you have listed above have answers...mainly in the form of symbolism and representations of the truth or true answer.

For instance (another perspective perhaps)...number 3 on your list:

quote:
3. Why does Roger lie to Angel at the end of Act 26 when he claims he doesn't know who he really is?


Perhaps, just perhaps, when Roger says he doesnt know who he really is...maybe thats a different way for him to say "Im confused. I have to sort out the past to get a real picture of what happened and retrieve our missing memories." That doesnt mean that Roger has lied to Angel, all it means is he's trying to prove a point and emphasize the importance of his state of being.

Now, Im NOT saying thats the answer to your question...but that is an example of an interpretation of what happened on screen in Act 26. Which means, a lot of what happened on screen needs to be interpretted...not all of it is cut and dry...

quote:
7. Why is Dorothy standing next to Angel in the last shot of Act 26 after the Reset?


Because it was meant to show that the "reset" only put the city back intact and replaced the damage done to it during Big O and Big Duo's final fight. Also, its meant to show, symbolically, that Angel did not erase everyone's memory, and that she kept them all intact. Hence, Dorothy is not kidnapped by Beck, and time has NOT reverted back to Act 1.

Basically, step back and ponder your own questions, then look at them from another perspective...when you do, you'll probably find all the answers your looking for...by interpretting what was on screen and not taking it as literal truth.
Big Money 06-09-2005 05:54 PM
Does Big O ever display "Cast in the Name of God" for Dorothy? I can't remember, but I don't think Big O does...


Personally, I don't think Roger is lying. He's very a very confused person. He vaguely remembers his childhood and earlier years, but in a sort of fictional way that he can't look directly at, sort of like Dark City. Everyone remembers the sun, but no one can remember when it was last daytime...


There isn't any proof that Paradigm is reset every 40 years... because we don't know if its happened before or if it will happen again...


There already is a Big O manga...
DorothyFan1 06-09-2005 07:59 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Big Money
Does Big O ever display "Cast in the Name of God" for Dorothy? I can't remember, but I don't think Big O does...


You have to admit...everytime Roger Smith powers up Big O we get that screen saying that phrase. But when we see Dorothy power up Big O...it's not shown. I'm betting this was intentional to keep fans guessing on that interesting question. Keep in mind it was Dorothy's memory core that powered up Big Fau. Big Fau wouldn't have accepted it if it knew it was fraudulently stolen. BUT...it was accepted into Big Fau's system without rejection.


quote:
There isn't any proof that Paradigm is reset every 40 years... because we don't know if its happened before or if it will happen again..
.

Very good point. And this leads back to Big Ear's comment that Paradigm City was built to be a stage with no memories prior to 40 years ago. Meaning even the 40 years numerology could have been falsely implanted in the characters "memories". It could have been "yesterday" for all we know and people would only know it to mean it was "forty years ago". If that stands up...then it means the Resets were pretty frequent. Only the duration has been longer between resets.


quote:
There already is a Big O manga...


I'm assuming you're referring to the episodes translated onto the page. But I've never heard nor seen any new post Season 2 Big O manga. If you know otherwise...please fill us all in on this interesting detail because I'm sure we'd LOVE to hear this.
Mike 06-09-2005 08:10 PM
I've heard that the manga storyline is actually completely different from the show, particularly the ending.
DorothyFan1 06-09-2005 08:40 PM
quote:
Originally posted by GAT-X105
I've heard that the manga storyline is actually completely different from the show, particularly the ending.


That's very interesting. Do you know what actually happens in the finale according to the manga? Excuse me...I'm getting ahead of myself...excuse my excitement from reading the above quote.

What exactly is different from the printed version of "Season 2" if you will...and can you tell us what the original ending to "Season 2" was according to what you've described in the above quote? I'm especially keen on what "difference" is there regarding characters like Dorothy and her "purpose" in the manga as opposed to the anima as we've all been discussing here in the Smith Mansion forum.
Big Money 06-09-2005 08:51 PM
The manga is crazy different... and most people already know about it.



There's a whole bunch about crispy, or so I hear...


Anyway, the two aren't really releated, and can't exactly be used to explain each other...
Megadeus 06-09-2005 08:54 PM
quote:
Originally posted by DorothyFan1

6. If Paradigm City is a hologram...why is it always reset after 40 years?



Reboot. Ever leave a PC running too long? You always have to reboot at some point. Maybe the 40 year mark is just too much for it OR that is the magic number of years before a reset happens.
DorothyFan1 06-09-2005 09:02 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Big Money
The manga is crazy different... and most people already know about it.



There's a whole bunch about crispy, or so I hear...


Anyway, the two aren't really releated, and can't exactly be used to explain each other...


Funny I haven't heard about what makes the manga of Big O so different...so please spill. I'm a neophyte on this matter of Big O manga...so I plead ignorance to "not knowing".

That's a fantastic photo of Big Duo and Swartzwald. Is there a website I can visit you can point out to me where I can see more of these fantastic images?
Big Money 06-09-2005 09:06 PM
I got that image off of Google, so I can't help you there... but doing a search of the Smith Mansion for Big O Manga will help you... Also, you can try the stickied Manga thread in this subforum, and the Paradigm City home page has some Manga images (I think...)
Peeps Bucket 06-09-2005 09:09 PM
I think there IS a continuation of post season 2 Big O in Manga form, but it hasn't been translated into English. I don't know a whole lot about it, but you might be able to dig up something about "Lost Memories" in that gigantic manga topic.
BigPrime 06-10-2005 07:52 PM
quote:
Originally posted by DorothyFan1
[
I'm assuming you're referring to the episodes translated onto the page. But I've never heard nor seen any new post Season 2 Big O manga. If you know otherwise...please fill us all in on this interesting detail because I'm sure we'd LOVE to hear this.


Simple, there isn't any. The manga ran from 1999-2001 and was compiled into six volumes. It was created at the same time as the show (beginning serialization several months ahead of the show, hence why Dorothy isn't in the first few chapters, Ariga kept her story a secret until the show had aired) and was mostly unrelated story-wise. Same setting, most of the same characters but different adventures (or sometimes the same adventures in different forms).

Anyhow, the events compiled in Volume 6 are something of a prototype for Season 2 (being written at about the time that Season 2 was starting production). When Season 2 did air in Japan Ariga was brought back to pen some more manga for it, but since Volume 6 and the last arc of Season 2 cover essentially the same points, the Season 2 manga, Big O: Lost Memory, was set between Volumes 5 & 6. For some reason, it hasn't been licensed and brought over here yet (or even scanlated, to my knowledge). I hope it does get picked up. My Big O collection isn't complete without it.
Collateral 07-01-2005 02:11 AM
What I did to answer the questions was contrive my on theory. It is more than 10 pages long I think and I actually turned it in as a school assignment. It does help and it makes things more fun. I do think a season 3 would be nice but until then just dream up one! Big Grin
MercZ 07-13-2005 01:59 AM
I'd like to see season 3, but as long as we have AS executives and people over at the boards who hate big o, it'll be unlikely.
Malkhos 07-21-2005 03:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by DorothyFan1


1. Why is Angel the one who's memories Roger sees in Act 26?

2. How can it be Angel when there is no inkling prior to Act 26 that she's that important to the series? Why the sudden twist in the end for?

3. Why does Roger lie to Angel at the end of Act 26 when he claims he doesn't know who he really is?

4. If Dorothy is not a Dominus...then why was she able to power up Big O on several occassions? If we keep assuming she's not a Dominus...Big O or any other Megadeus wouldn't have bothered to even flash the announcement on the screen "Cast in the name of God, ye not guilty" at all.

5. Why does Angel create Dorothy to be Roger's "assistant" for? Why is Dorothy so necessary for Roger Smith and the whole Big O mythology?

6. If Paradigm City is a hologram...why is it always reset after 40 years?

7. Why is Dorothy standing next to Angel in the last shot of Act 26 after the Reset?

8. If we never get a Season 3 to air...why can't the Big O be revived via comic books?


1-5. As i've argued before, Big 0 expresses in a modernized form ancient mythology of a Neoplatonic/Gnostic nature.

Rosewater pere is what we would think of as God. Rosewater fils is what the Greek philosopher Porphyry termed,'the fallen spirit who wishes to be worshipped as the greatest God,' or Paul's Prince of the powers of the Air.' Either becuase of the inherently inferior nature of matter or becuase of some catastrophe in the process of creation, the world is imperfect. One of the principle hypostases of the divine world is fallen and trapped in matter (Dororthy--this is why her memoreis are key to the exiestence and poloting of the Bigs). Another divine agent was sent down into the world to bring her back. This figure is a mediator, or , if you will, a negotiator--compare Jesus/Maria Magdalena, or, more pointedly, Simon Magus/Helena of Tyre. Angel is the demiurge--the actor from the divine world responsible for creating the material world (see Plato's Timaeus, or Paul's comments about the law having been handed down by an angel or the world created by angels). But no one realizes that she is the god of this world beucase they are deceived by Rosewater. No one can remember anything beucase the process of divine beings (including ordinary human souls) entereing into material bodies creates a state of amneisa (drinking from the river Lethe in Greek myth, esp. Plato's Phaedrus and Plutarch's, On the Face in the Moon)

6. In the Jewish version of Neoplatonism (Kabbalah), the whole cosmic cycle--fall, creation, redemption, destruction--is carried out again and again endlessly--this is actually an old Stoic idea (ekpyrosis) that was rejected by Plotinus and other Greek (and Christian) Neoplatonists (and it has precedents in ns ome of the Pre-Socratics).

7. The Stoics assumed that each iteration fo the world was exactly like all the others-- that Socrates and ALexander the Great lived exactly the same live along wiht everyone else. Jewish thought is not very clear on this point as they would have considered such specualtion blasphemous. But it seems to me that the creators of Big 0 believe that there is some variation. We can see form the glimpses of memory that the previous world was destroyed in a battle founght between hundreds or thousands of Great Gods--the one that is the subject of Big O by only two. So the next world will be the same but differnt. Thre main charactrs will be the same but their relationship will be differnt. Perhaps we can infer that in the next iteration Dorothy and Angel will begin as friends and only at some later point meet Roger. Also, I suspect that in the previous age (this would be the world Roger remembers when he has his lapse while fighting in Big O and finds out that his house and bank accounts are non existeent, but that ANgel knows him as her superior officer in the miltary--another differnt relationship) human beings were biological entities like ourselves, whereas in the main iteration of Big O everyone seems to have been a robot (atlelast Roger and the Big Ear were)--perhaps in the next world Dorothoty would be normal human being (whatever normal will be in that world) and she and Roger can have a normal relationship (or, given the conventions of magna and anime, perhaps she and Angel can be a lesbian ocuple!).

8. Since everything was revealed in the second season, why do we need a third? It would just be more of the same. But that may be sour grapes. if it was going to be made, its production would at least have been anounced by now.

I'm sure a lot of readers will reject my interpretation s nce it won't make any sense to them beucase they aren't familiar with the ancient mythological and philosophical texts on which it is built. However, when I recently watched the DVDs I noticed two details that cannot be explained in an other way.

As I've mentioned before, a key pice of symbolism in Big 0 is the Pythagorean tetrad--that is the digits 1, 2, 3, 4, which if added together make 10. Also it you make an arrangment of Dots:

*
**
***
****


it forms an equaliteral triangle


The Pythagoreas thought that this was no accident. They saw it as God's way of infomring us (at least of informing philosophers) of the secrets of creation: namely that the four elements are mixed together to make up the whole universe, etc. Aristotle went one better and figured that the stars were made of a fifth element, the Quintesence. This dominates the conception of the Great Gods (Megadei), where we have four Megadei (each of which correpsonds to an element), and then Big 0 (the zero standing for the base, 10) superiror to them all. Big Venus is the quintesence.

In any case, I noticed for the first time Vera's and Ange'ls code numebrs in the Union spy service: Aget, 12, and Agent 340.

Even more pointed is the pool game in the bar where Roger meats the Big Ear. Pool is of coruse palyed with 15 balls arranged in a triangle rack to start with. But the games palyed there are palyed with only balls--if that isn;t meant to shout out to viewers 'The Tetrad is imporatn ot the show!' I don't know what could be.
PJthe4th 07-22-2005 09:22 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Malkhos
1-5. As i've argued before, Big 0 expresses in a modernized form ancient mythology of a Neoplatonic/Gnostic nature.

Rosewater pere is what we would think of as God. Rosewater fils is what the Greek philosopher Porphyry termed,'the fallen spirit who wishes to be worshipped as the greatest God,' or Paul's Prince of the powers of the Air.' Either becuase of the inherently inferior nature of matter or becuase of some catastrophe in the process of creation, the world is imperfect. One of the principle hypostases of the divine world is fallen and trapped in matter (Dororthy--this is why her memoreis are key to the exiestence and poloting of the Bigs). Another divine agent was sent down into the world to bring her back. This figure is a mediator, or , if you will, a negotiator--compare Jesus/Maria Magdalena, or, more pointedly, Simon Magus/Helena of Tyre. Angel is the demiurge--the actor from the divine world responsible for creating the material world (see Plato's Timaeus, or Paul's comments about the law having been handed down by an angel or the world created by angels). But no one realizes that she is the god of this world beucase they are deceived by Rosewater. No one can remember anything beucase the process of divine beings (including ordinary human souls) entereing into material bodies creates a state of amneisa (drinking from the river Lethe in Greek myth, esp. Plato's Phaedrus and Plutarch's, On the Face in the Moon)

6. In the Jewish version of Neoplatonism (Kabbalah), the whole cosmic cycle--fall, creation, redemption, destruction--is carried out again and again endlessly--this is actually an old Stoic idea (ekpyrosis) that was rejected by Plotinus and other Greek (and Christian) Neoplatonists (and it has precedents in ns ome of the Pre-Socratics).

7. The Stoics assumed that each iteration fo the world was exactly like all the others-- that Socrates and ALexander the Great lived exactly the same live along wiht everyone else. Jewish thought is not very clear on this point as they would have considered such specualtion blasphemous. But it seems to me that the creators of Big 0 believe that there is some variation. We can see form the glimpses of memory that the previous world was destroyed in a battle founght between hundreds or thousands of Great Gods--the one that is the subject of Big O by only two. So the next world will be the same but differnt. Thre main charactrs will be the same but their relationship will be differnt. Perhaps we can infer that in the next iteration Dorothy and Angel will begin as friends and only at some later point meet Roger. Also, I suspect that in the previous age (this would be the world Roger remembers when he has his lapse while fighting in Big O and finds out that his house and bank accounts are non existeent, but that ANgel knows him as her superior officer in the miltary--another differnt relationship) human beings were biological entities like ourselves, whereas in the main iteration of Big O everyone seems to have been a robot (atlelast Roger and the Big Ear were)--perhaps in the next world Dorothoty would be normal human being (whatever normal will be in that world) and she and Roger can have a normal relationship (or, given the conventions of magna and anime, perhaps she and Angel can be a lesbian ocuple!).

8. Since everything was revealed in the second season, why do we need a third? It would just be more of the same. But that may be sour grapes. if it was going to be made, its production would at least have been anounced by now.

I'm sure a lot of readers will reject my interpretation s nce it won't make any sense to them beucase they aren't familiar with the ancient mythological and philosophical texts on which it is built. However, when I recently watched the DVDs I noticed two details that cannot be explained in an other way.

As I've mentioned before, a key pice of symbolism in Big 0 is the Pythagorean tetrad--that is the digits 1, 2, 3, 4, which if added together make 10. Also it you make an arrangment of Dots:

*
**
***
****


it forms an equaliteral triangle


The Pythagoreas thought that this was no accident. They saw it as God's way of infomring us (at least of informing philosophers) of the secrets of creation: namely that the four elements are mixed together to make up the whole universe, etc. Aristotle went one better and figured that the stars were made of a fifth element, the Quintesence. This dominates the conception of the Great Gods (Megadei), where we have four Megadei (each of which correpsonds to an element), and then Big 0 (the zero standing for the base, 10) superiror to them all. Big Venus is the quintesence.

In any case, I noticed for the first time Vera's and Ange'ls code numebrs in the Union spy service: Aget, 12, and Agent 340.

Even more pointed is the pool game in the bar where Roger meats the Big Ear. Pool is of coruse palyed with 15 balls arranged in a triangle rack to start with. But the games palyed there are palyed with only balls--if that isn;t meant to shout out to viewers 'The Tetrad is imporatn ot the show!' I don't know what could be.


There's a lot of facts in there that are, I'll admit, pretty indisputable. However, there's a comment I'd like to make:

In the mythology of Big O, a megadeus is just any giant destructive robot, meaning that there are well over 4; we see over 10 at least. What you mean are the Bigs, of which there are O, Duo, Fau and Venus. So your theory concerning the numbers 123 and 4 doesn't work in this case, as there are only three plus Venus, the quintesence.

Other than that it all seems spot on.
Darthpez001 07-24-2005 09:42 PM
Unless the four elements correspond as: Big O/Earth, Big Duo/Air, Big Fau/Water, with Big Duo 'Inferno' referring to fire, although he's still a flying Big after his rebuild so it's a bit of a stretch.