[Comment] Removing Thread Ratings

X Prime 04-12-2005 12:11 PM
Honestly, they're more trouble than they're worth, at least on this set of forums. While in theory they are used to express displeasure with the content of the thread, and as far as I know they have been used ifor that purpose, the few instances in which people actively get offended by them for whatever reason are enough to warrant their removal. In my opinion they are something to comment on and laugh about, but other than that, their usefulness is negligible on these forums due to, er, social conflicts?

Now I could make all kinds of social forum commentary, but perhaps another time.
Almasy 04-12-2005 05:02 PM
I think thread ratings are hot!
evanASF27 04-12-2005 05:17 PM
Personally I don't care whether we keep them or not. I've seen people rate threads bad ratings for the hell of it, just to be stupid, and just to take it out on someone for no good reason. I don't see anything wrong with the system...it''s just with the people who decide to use it improperly. THAT is where the problem lies in my eyes. The time a thread should be given a good rating is when it's a good thread, the time to give a thread a bad rating is when the thread is bad.

Keep it or get rid of it...to me, it's up to the staff. Wink
Tony Waynewrong 04-12-2005 07:48 PM
Well, I really don't care too much about them. It isn't a very reliable measurement on how good a member's thread is. In fact, it isn't much good for anything. However, I think it should remain. I mean, why is it so offensive? There are a lot of things offensive (comments about people, horrible posts and terrible reviews on theories, fan-art and fan-fics), so the best way to deal with them is to ignore them (unless there's trolling, then action needs to be taken). However, if rating bars are removed, I wouldn't shed a tear.
Captain Maw 04-12-2005 10:18 PM
ahh keep'em! i mean it feels good to get a thumbs up, which happens much more than a thumbs down, and it doesn't hurt as much if a thumbs down. i mean c'mon, a few thumbs aren't gonna ruin my day. if ppl get offended by something like that, they're gonna expect quite a trip down in life. i say the more feature the better. and this one seems ok.
Krang 04-13-2005 02:41 AM
I just wanted to point out that the reason that we're considering getting rid of the thread ratings is because they can be used to indirectly attack someone, especially in cases where there is a thread dedicated to someone (for example, birthday threads). This is the same reason why the Hudson has never had thread ratings enabled.

quote:
Originally posted by evanASF27
I don't see anything wrong with the system...it''s just with the people who decide to use it improperly. THAT is where the problem lies in my eyes. The time a thread should be given a good rating is when it's a good thread, the time to give a thread a bad rating is when the thread is bad.

I agree. However, it might be more trouble than it's worth to start monitoring thread ratings more closely to prevent abuse...

So basically, we have 5 options that I can think of:
  1. Leave things the way they are.
    Pros: This kind of incident doesn't happen very often, and the fact that this incident was blown way out of proportion may prevent further abuse of the ratings system.
    Cons: This does nothing to solve the problem and opens up the possibility of the same thing happening again.
  2. Remove thread ratings entirely.
    Pros: It solves the problem.
    Cons: It's not really fair to remove them in places where they have been used properly so far.
  3. Remove thread ratings from just the Speakeasy.
    Pros: It solves the problem, plus it doesn't punish forum areas in which thread ratings have been used properly.
    Cons: This type of incident doesn't happen too often, so it may not be entirely necessary if it can be worked around...
  4. Increase the number of ratings necessary for the rating to be viewable.
    Pros: It may discourage organized attacks of low ratings since more would be necessary to become visible.
    Cons: Threads with only a few votes will no longer have a visible rating, even if it's a positive one.
  5. Move the birthday threads to a subforum or to one combined thread.
    Pros: Less threads dedicated to one or a few members means less of a chance to use thread ratings against them.
    Cons: One thread wouldn't be as noticeable, so people may miss it.
What does everyone think? I'd like to hear some opinions on the various options before looking into any of them further.
StevieV019 04-13-2005 07:27 AM
Id say from the above 5 options, go with 1,4, or 5.

I think the thread ratings are good to some extent. It can keep the drivel threads from prospering. Now that we are in a transition period involving The Big O (the main reason there is a forum), it IS important (in my opinion) to keep the threads interesting. The thread ratings, while they can be harsh at times, simply show the opinion of the thread content based upon member ratings. Whats wrong with that? It shows how the voting members feel about the thread topic. At least thats how I view it. If ratings for a thread are going down based upon the posts and the opinions that lie therein, then we have a problem. I feel the threads should be rated based upon the subject matter and whether its interesting and an engaging topic.

I think also, when a thread gets "dissed" most of the people that see that happening realize whats truly going on. The mature members and those that can deal with other people's opinions and are not self conscious about themselves can move on and think nothing of it. Perhaps thats a good thing? (I tend to think so...) We are a community, yes, we are relatively mature and friendly to each other, yes, but we arent supposed to hold everyone's hand. We are on a forum where your opinion is ALLOWED and should welcomed, strictly for the fact that its an opinion. A rating, again, is strictly someone's opinion...and we all have differing ones on different topics, from subject matter, to theories, to overall rating of a member or forum thread.

The most diplomatic resolution would be number 4 or 5. With number 4, it will take a solid majority to actually display a thread rating. Number 5 opens up an entirely new problem though, if you go with a separate subforum or thread. What about those that have birthdays that DONT get recognized with a "Happy Birthday" thread or cheer? Thatll just open a thread up to the whole "Why didnt I get a thread??" complaint.

Can we all deal with some criticism? Having a differing opinion or saying you disagree with something isnt a bad thing. Most of the time it comes down to how you present it to somebody. As people mature and deal with different people, they will face and hear different opinions from their own. They're gonna have to learn how to deal with it, plain and simple. Its part of the maturing process. Seeing a rating that may differ from their own only means someone doesnt agree with that person's opinion, and again, whats wrong with that??
Almasy 04-13-2005 08:14 AM
I think Birthday Threads should have their own forum where only positive ratings can be given! ^_^
Travis Bickle 04-13-2005 10:44 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Almasy
I think Birthday Threads should have their own forum where only positive ratings can be given! ^_^


That sounds ideal but impossible. I like the way you're thinking, though.

I say keep them, but that's just my take on things.
StevieV019 04-13-2005 10:56 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Almasy
I think Birthday Threads should have their own forum where only positive ratings can be given! ^_^


That doesnt sound very fair. (I understand where you're coming from...but still...) Brainwashing, or forcing an opinion on somebody isnt fair, regardless if its a positive or negative opinion. The possibility of only allowing positive ratings is, in a sense, a way of forcing an opinion towards something.

Bottom line: We each should have to right to express our opinions with regard to a thread freely and honestly, while also being mature to realize:
a) its ONLY a thread rating
b) its ONLY someone else's opinion
c) we all have feelings and negative ratings arent necessarily bad; they are a form of feedback to improve the membership and threads as a whole
Captain Maw 04-13-2005 02:13 PM
yeah: #1. i have to agree with Stevie.to keep it short and sweet:
people get criticized in life, it happens, and they get over it fine.
we are all entitled to our own opinion
the ratings tend to be good, unless the thread is inappropriate.
Krang 04-14-2005 01:54 AM
quote:
Originally posted by StevieV019
Id say from the above 5 options, go with 1,4, or 5.

[...]

Can we all deal with some criticism? Having a differing opinion or saying you disagree with something isnt a bad thing. Most of the time it comes down to how you present it to somebody. As people mature and deal with different people, they will face and hear different opinions from their own. They're gonna have to learn how to deal with it, plain and simple. Its part of the maturing process. Seeing a rating that may differ from their own only means someone doesnt agree with that person's opinion, and again, whats wrong with that??

I agree completely, and you have proven many good points about how thread ratings can be useful. However, the only reason I'm considering removing them because of how easy they are to abuse, not because of legitimate bad ratings. For example, "I don't like Person A, so I'll give his thread a bad rating regardless of what it's about" or "Hey, look, someone posted a thread about a personal event involving Person A. I'm going to get all my friends to give that thread a bad rating to make him look bad." That's the only type of behavior I have a problem with when it comes to ratings. It's fine with me if people legitimately give threads low ratings, as long as they honestly believe that the thread itself deserves it. Sorry for the confusion, but dealing with misuse of the thread rating system was the original intent of this thread due to events that took place in ACT's brithday thread and similar events that took place prior to that.

quote:
Originally posted by Almasy
I think Birthday Threads should have their own forum where only positive ratings can be given! ^_^

That's not possible without modifying the forum software, but if a separate subforum was added for birthday threads, ratings would be disabled so that they wouldn't be an issue.

So, does anyone have any additional opinions on which of these solutions would be best to handle abuse of the ratings system?
Madrona 04-14-2005 02:46 AM
Despite that I usually run away from this sort of topic, I'm going to say #1. Or possibly #5. Though it's nice to have your own thread.

Let me be honest here:
I don't rank every thread. I try not to even think about it. I have been pissy from time to time with certain threads. As far as I could tell, it didn't make any difference whatsoever.Roll Eyes And no, I never told my friends what I had done.

I would never give a Birthday thread anything less than a 10 ( don't think I have anyway).Confused

In anycase, I'd like to see them stay.
Hienrich Ele 04-14-2005 11:52 AM
quote:

Leave things the way they are.
Pros: This kind of incident doesn't happen very often, and the fact that this incident was blown way out of proportion may prevent further abuse of the ratings system.
Cons: This does nothing to solve the problem and opens up the possibility of the same thing happening again.



I like this.

The main community here knows that some people don't like another member, and therefore will rate a thread that is started by the member low. So, if we know about it, what's the problem?

If I see a thread that is about a birthday, and it has thumbs down, I just assume some guy was an 'A-Hole' and wanted to show his displeasure.

Now, if I see a thread that has thumbs down, and the subject is "Kitty Cats 4tw! I <3 Them @ll!!!!" Then I know it is spam, and it deserves the thumbs down.


I only rate threads down that are either Spam, blatant attacks, or "OMG! I AM LEAVING FOREVER!111!".

I only rate threads up that are cool and interesting.


So, to sum it all up: You make a good thread, and it gets a thumb down, what do you to? Accept it. Some people are just not going to like you. Get over it, and know that the rating is undeserved.
StevieV019 04-14-2005 01:18 PM
I understand why this is coming up...due to abusing the thread rating for easy attacks on other members. That is certainly not cool, and I dont condone that. However, penalizing the right to rate a thread based upon some punks who think its cool to attack another member isnt right either.

Probably the most diplomatic answer is #4...that way itll take more than 1, 2, or 3 votes to actually establish a thread rating. Why dont you try increasing the amount of votes needed to establish a rating and see how that does before making separate birthday threads/forums or eliminating thread ratings altogether??
Mr. Fortnight 04-14-2005 03:47 PM
Here's my take on it.

If a problem seems more complex to solve than it needs to be, remove the problem. Keep it simple, Krang. Ratings serve no useful purpose than to allow a troll to work his magic. Remove it, and all your problems with them will go away.

I find Thread ratings quite useless. More than even User Ratings.
Krang 04-15-2005 03:42 AM
Thanks for the opinions, everyone. It seems that most people would like to leave things the way they are, so we'll probably just do that for now. However, in order to deal with future problems with rating abuse, I came up with a new policy:

If someone notices a thread rating being abused (i.e., several people giving the thread a bad rating within a short amount of time when there's no particular reason why the thread would deserve it), let me know which thread it is and what the current status of the rating is (for example, 6 Votes - Average Rating: 1.00), and I'll look into it. If it appears that the low ratings were an organized effort, I'll reset the thread rating, but not the voting records, so that people who previously voted will not be able to vote again.

That should take care of the unfair low rating that the thread got and hopefully discourage further abuse of the ratings system, since people will eventually learn that their efforts will be useless as their low ratings will only be removed.