The Ultimate Harry Potter Thread

NVWC2006 07-16-2005 04:29 PM
holy crap..
(it took me 8 hours, 22 min to read the book, with breaks)

wow. i can hardly believe all the good and bad things that happened in this book. it's shocking. i can't say it yet, because some may not have read the entire thing and i'd be spoiling..

wait..

we have spoiler boxes!

spoiler (highlight to read):
holy crap. more hints at Ron/Hermione, HARRY AND GINNY F**ING WENT OUT!!!!, Snape, that b*st*rd, I want to kill him... Dumbledore, dead...it can't be, but it is. Gryffendor got the cup.. but the Ministry is still full of idiots..Harry doesn't plan to come to school again assuming it's still in session.
A few things urked me. I'm sure I found three typos in that book. And, I wanted to see more of Snape's classes. who would have guessed snape was half blooded.. and that evil. but he had that Unforgivable Vow.. wow. just wow. oh. and Harry Potter is not spiderman, pathetic fool, while noble, when he wins (AND HE WILL BE VOLDEMORT) he better get back with Ginny...


i need to let it all set it for me more b4 i can make a good real comment. sorry!
IanC 07-16-2005 05:01 PM
quote:
Originally posted by GAT-X105
Anyone else heard about the crazy precaher-types saying that the new book is sending kids to hell?

Theres swearing (well not really), teens using the word "slut", teens kissing and sticking there midle finger up at others. Maybe thats what will send them to hell?


Or maybe they are just crazy people who dont like the fact that a book about a wizard got kids into reading again.
The Fallen Phoenix 07-16-2005 05:19 PM
quote:
Originally posted by IanC
Well at 7:00 PM BST i finshed reading the 6th book (started reading at around 12:30 Midday)

And yeah, what an ending. Crying

At least the school kids are starting to act like teenagers
spoiler (highlight to read):
Harry and Ginny, although it dont last long.


Can't say I had not told you so!

...sorry, I could not resist. And at least some members probably know what I'm referring to.

spoiler (highlight to read):
Yes, that means you, you foolish Harry/Hermione fans! I told you it would be Ginny, I told you!


Rowling impressed me. I didn't think she'd have the gall to do it.

spoiler (highlight to read):
I really thought she'd try to out-clever herself and make Snape secretly good, but I'm really glad she did not.


And I knew who the Half-Blood Prince was as soon as Potter had the book; I thought that was painfully obvious.

...more thoughts later. Food is on the table!
Lady Tesser 07-16-2005 05:43 PM
Our copy just arrived in the mail (three hours later than usual).

PCT is reading it first since he speed-reads and will be done in about four or five hours. "I got this for you, honest. I'm not interested in it, myself."

Anyway, from the reactions of shocking disbelief, I'm slightly hesitant at this stage to read it. From the reactions on my Live Journal list, it seems Ms. Rowling is pissing off a lot of people.

Well, it's HER story.
The Fallen Phoenix 07-16-2005 06:01 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Tesser
Our copy just arrived in the mail (three hours later than usual).

PCT is reading it first since he speed-reads and will be done in about four or five hours. "I got this for you, honest. I'm not interested in it, myself."

Anyway, from the reactions of shocking disbelief, I'm slightly hesitant at this stage to read it. From the reactions on my Live Journal list, it seems Ms. Rowling is pissing off a lot of people.

Well, it's HER story.


...I really can't see how anyone would be pissed with the actual plot progression. I mean, a lot of the places she was going were pretty obvious--perhaps not exactly how it progressed--
spoiler (highlight to read):
I mean...let's be honest here, Dumbledore wasn't getting out of the series intact, though I will admit I thought she was going for a redeemed Snape
--but still...

Now, I take some issue because I thought the book lacked a lot of substance; it was a great read, but for some reason the book seemed rather shallow. Okay, I should rephrase that--I don't really take too much issue with it, because that means less fluff; admittedly, that's something I'm not too pleased with when I go back and read some of the earlier books. Granted, it is necessary fluff, but at this stage I'm glad the pages are being devoted almost entirely to the problem at hand--the destruction of Lord Voldemort--and not spending too much time on the "little" things.

Okay, I realize that doesn't make any sense since I'm contradicting myself there. Let me rephrase it completely: I thought the book was shallow, but the book kind of needed to be, so it really does not bother me much now that I stop and think about it.

Now, there could have been more character reaction later in the book--
spoiler (highlight to read):
the romantic in me would have loved to see at least one Harry/Ginny conversation other than the break-up that really wasn't (I see it more of a break than anything else, actually)
--though, again, I can understand devoting the pagespace to the problem at hand.

I will say one last spoiler, though.
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If that was really the reason Dumbledore trusted Snape--his sincerity for the deaths of the Potters, I mean--I have to admit that Dumbledore was a fool and really had it coming to him.

On the other hand, I have to tip my hat to Voldemort. Placing a curse on the Defense Against the Dark Arts position because he didn't get the position from Dumbledore...that actually made me stop and laugh.
NVWC2006 07-16-2005 10:04 PM
quote:
Originally posted by The Fallen Phoenix
I will say one last spoiler, though.
spoiler (highlight to read):
If that was really the reason Dumbledore trusted Snape--his sincerity for the deaths of the Potters, I mean--I have to admit that Dumbledore was a fool and really had it coming to him.

On the other hand, I have to tip my hat to Voldemort. Placing a curse on the Defense Against the Dark Arts position because he didn't get the position from Dumbledore...that actually made me stop and laugh.


spoiler (highlight to read):
Dumbledore was aware of this, so then why did he make Snape the Defense of the Dark Arts teacher anyway (and why was it called D.A.D.A. instead of D.o.t.D.A.)? He'd known that Snape was only going to last a year, and really I think that Snape has developed but a little affection for the Headmaster. Also, from that chapter where Snape made the Vox, I thought Draco was supposed to kill Harry, not Dumbledore.
The Fallen Phoenix 07-16-2005 10:18 PM
quote:
Originally posted by NVWC2006
spoiler (highlight to read):
Dumbledore was aware of this, so then why did he make Snape the Defense of the Dark Arts teacher anyway (and why was it called D.A.D.A. instead of D.o.t.D.A.)? He'd known that Snape was only going to last a year, and really I think that Snape has developed but a little affection for the Headmaster. Also, from that chapter where Snape made the Vox, I thought Draco was supposed to kill Harry, not Dumbledore.


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Well, there are a lot of things going on behind the scenes that we still don't know about. For example, what were Dumbledore and Snape arguing about--the conversation Hagrid partly overheard, I mean? Upon first glance, one would presume Snape was refusing to spy for Dumbledore anymore--but was that really what they were arguing about? Impossible to know, since Dumbledore is dead and...well, Snape is with Voldemort, now. Presumably, at least. Did Snape tell Dumbledore about the Unbreakable Vow? Did Snape tell Dumbledore Malfoy was plotting to kill him? Perhaps Dumbledore figured it out on his own. Personally, I hope Snape remains a villain because he's far more interesting to me that way...

On the other hand, Snape seemed to go pretty easy on Potter during their short duel. Not only that, but one could argue Snape was practically screaming at Potter to learn Occlumency:

"Blocked again and again and again until you learn to keep your mouth shut and your mind closed, Potter!" sneered Snape, deflecting the curse once more. (603, U.S. Hardcover)

Idle taunting? Personally, I think so. Still, there are other possibilities...

I suspected Dumbledore was the intended target from the beginning--I figured he'd be the one killed in this book; it was his time to die. Now Potter is finally alone--and he has four Horcruxes to destroy and Voldemort himself to slay.

If it was Potter Malfoy had to kill, why didn't he kill him on the train? Right then it was obvious Potter wasn't Malfoy's intended target.

I hope Potter and Voldemort make it back to Hogwarts for the final showdown--part of me was secretly hoping for a large-scale invasion of the castle at some point during the sixth or seventh book, though I admittedly thought it unlikely. Doesn't really seem Rowling's style.

While it was fitting for Fawkes to abaondon the castle following his master's death, at least a small part of me thought he might remain with Potter. I have a sneaking suspicion Potter will meet up with the phoenix at some point in the seventh book, regardless.
Lady Tesser 07-17-2005 09:32 AM
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I was quite under the impression that the repairing of the Vanishing Cabinet was intended as a way for an invasion of Death Eaters into the school. Or it might be a clever red herring on Voldemort's part.

I was also under the impression that Snape is an ass to Harry so as to prevent Harry from getting a big head about his fame. Keeps him from being lazy in his magic-learning.

And Voldemort would NEVER send someone else to kill Harry - he fully intends to kill Harry himself, and would not send an apprentice Death Eater to do so. Remember that the Prophesy in Book 5 specifically stated that it'll come down to Voldemort and Harry.

Oh, yeah - Dobby beating on Kreacher was the best part of the book. The little toad needed to be tenderized by someone with more honor. ^_^
NVWC2006 07-17-2005 12:10 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Tesser
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And Voldemort would NEVER send someone else to kill Harry - he fully intends to kill Harry himself, and would not send an apprentice Death Eater to do so. Remember that the Prophesy in Book 5 specifically stated that it'll come down to Voldemort and Harry.


spoiler (highlight to read):
True. However, didn't at the beginning, Mrs. Malfoy say that her son would surely die, that Voldemort didn't expect him to succeed, and then Snape made that Vow. Though now all the reasons stated to make more sense that it wasn't meant to be Harry, Malfoy didn't know what the prophecy said (at least not in its entirety if he knew anything), I still had thought maybe it was Voldemort's goal the whole time for Malfoy to die fighting.

On another note, all the captured Death Eaters are being held in Azkaban, which is currently without its Dementor guards. Is it under constant Auror watch then?


quote:
Originally Posted by The Fallen Phoenix
spoiler (highlight to read):
On the other hand, Snape seemed to go pretty easy on Potter during their short duel. Not only that, but one could argue Snape was practically screaming at Potter to learn Occlumency:

"Blocked again and again and again until you learn to keep your mouth shut and your mind closed, Potter!" sneered Snape, deflecting the curse once more. (603, U.S. Hardcover)


spoiler (highlight to read):
Two things from that.. Snape is so freakin' powerful! Back in the Ministry in book 5, Harry's and other DAer's attacks were strong enough to hold off the Death Eaters, yet here is Snape who lazily blocks Harry's attacks. Something has made Snape much more powerful than other wizards, and he seems to now be the 2nd strongest one, 2nd to Voldemort. Of course, for the sake of good story, Harry will probably either be stronger or find a flaw (or hermione will find it and tell him), and he'll win, but for now, Volde and Snape are up top.

Second, I'm not sure if it was hinting or taunting or whatever, that Snape said. Snape would know that taunting Potter would make him want to attack more, which may satisfy wants Snape felt for years, to do to Harry. On the other hand, it could be odd enouragement to Harry to fight. I really can't tell what Snape is up to right now, I still find it hard to believe he's fully on Voldemort's side, but I think he's more there than w/Hogwarts.

Also.. things that haven't been touched on much so therefore will probably have a hand in book 7.. Sirius' 2 way mirror was mentioned like once, like NOTHING took place actually within Siruis's..well..Harry's home..

As I said before, Harry isn't Spiderman. i haven't seen Spidey2 but i still believe Harry will get back with Ginny (if she isn't killed first, Malfoy had to have gotten wind of that lil couple as it traveled around the school, and he'd tell Voldemort). and Hermione is like going to kill ron if he goes out with anyone else..it's so obvious to us (and to harry) but it's like, hermione knows how she feels but is unsure of Ron, Ron has some thing for Hermione but is too stupid to realize how she acted when he was w/Lavender meant anything.. actually it makes me think a little of InuYasha and Kagome..DON'T KILL ME I JUST WATCHED IT LAST NIGHT THAT'S ALL...

Mugglenet theorized that the number 7 was significant. guess they were right.
Prince-Consort Tesser 07-17-2005 12:54 PM
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Snape's redemption is still a possibility.

Primus - Snape had Dumbledore's complete trust. And despite everyone saying "old fool", NO ONE lives a century and a half fighting the forces of Evil by being stupid.

Secundus - Dumbledore is a believer in causes being more important than individual lives (i.e., his insistence that Harry promise to follow his orders even if Dumbledore was killed.)

Tertius - Snape was bound by the Unbreakable Vow to a) protect Malfoy and b) complete Malfoy's mission if the boy failed.

Quartus - Snape's role was as a double agent (or triple? Or quadruple? Oy my head ...)

Logically, Dumbledore was likely to have bound Snape to the Order of the Phoenix by the simple expedient of an Unbreakable Vow. And Dumbledore would have made that vow a vow of loyalty to the Order, not to him personally.

At the climactic moment, even a dullard (like the thuggish Death Eaters that had been sent on the Hogwarts raid) could tell that Malfoy was not going to kill Dumbledore. Thus, Malfoy had failed the mission. Refusing to kill Dumbledore would have left Snape in the postion of breaking TWO Unbreakable Vows at once (he would have failed to complete Malfoy's mission and he would have given himself away as Dumbledore's man, thus betraying the Order). So killing Dumbledore was the only option open to him.

Thus, Snape could still be the Order's agent, working for Dumbledore's cause.


Quite a book. It took me over five hours to read it. It would have been faster, but I was watching TV at the same time - can't miss my Brit-Coms.
NVWC2006 07-17-2005 09:25 PM
Something a friend pointed out to me:
spoiler (highlight to read):
Go to US Hardback pages 405 and 406. Hagrid talks about Dumbledore and Snape fighting, arguing. Read it over. Snape is really upset over something Dumbledore wants him to do, and he doesn't want to do it. It is, since we have many years until book 7, just speculation, but it could be that Dumbledore has told Snape that Snape will have to kill Dumbledore.

This can go with what Prince-Consort Tesser said, possibly, if Snape also has an Unbreakable Vow to the Order of the Pheonix.

When Malfoy and Dumbledore was talking, Malfoy mentioned Snape's vow, and Dumbledore seemed to shrug it off. It could be Dumbledore didn't believe it, it could be he knew it was true and was simply delaying for Snape to show up.

Also: Dumbledore was secret keeper for OotP HQ. Does that mean, now that he is gone, that no one else can find it, or that the spell is broken and anyone can find the residence now? i'm not sure if the secret-keeper laws have been completely fortold b4 or not.
The Fallen Phoenix 07-17-2005 09:39 PM
quote:
Originally posted by NVWC2006
Something a friend pointed out to me:
spoiler (highlight to read):
Go to US Hardback pages 405 and 406. Hagrid talks about Dumbledore and Snape fighting, arguing. Read it over. Snape is really upset over something Dumbledore wants him to do, and he doesn't want to do it. It is, since we have many years until book 7, just speculation, but it could be that Dumbledore has told Snape that Snape will have to kill Dumbledore.

This can go with what Prince-Consort Tesser said, possibly, if Snape also has an Unbreakable Vow to the Order of the Pheonix.

When Malfoy and Dumbledore was talking, Malfoy mentioned Snape's vow, and Dumbledore seemed to shrug it off. It could be Dumbledore didn't believe it, it could be he knew it was true and was simply delaying for Snape to show up.

Also: Dumbledore was secret keeper for OotP HQ. Does that mean, now that he is gone, that no one else can find it, or that the spell is broken and anyone can find the residence now? i'm not sure if the secret-keeper laws have been completely fortold b4 or not.


spoiler (highlight to read):
That was the conversation I alluded to in my previous post. I haven't ruled out Snape being redeemable, I just hope it's unlikely because I'd rather him be a villain. Irrational? Perhaps, but I'm human.


I don't know about the Fidelus Charm--I don't think it is broken when the Secret Keeper dies, however. I think the secret goes with the Keeper until the grave.

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Perhaps no one new can reach Grimmauld Place until the Charm is lifted (however that may be). Of course, I'm just putting forth a theory.
Big Money 07-18-2005 03:12 PM
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Quick! Someone reread books 1 through 5 looking for any mention of anybody ever having the initials R.A.B. ...

Am I the only one who really liked Slughorn?

Dumbledore... sucks, but like FP, I saw it coming... He had an "Obi Wan" air about him...
The Fallen Phoenix 07-18-2005 03:44 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Big Money
spoiler (highlight to read):
Quick! Someone reread books 1 through 5 looking for any mention of anybody ever having the initials R.A.B. ...

Am I the only one who really liked Slughorn?

Dumbledore... sucks, but like FP, I saw it coming... He had an "Obi Wan" air about him...


spoiler (highlight to read):
Regulus Black, Sirius' younger brother. And we've come across the Locket of Slytherin before.

"There was a musical box that emitted a faintly sinister, tinkling tune when wound, and they all found themselves becoming curiously weak and sleepy until Ginny had the sense to slam the lid shut; also a heavy locket that none of them could open, a number of ancient seals and, in a dusty box, an Order of Merlin, First Class, that had been awarded to Sirius's grandfather for 'Services to the Ministry'" (116, Order of the Phoenix U.S. hardcover)

The Slytherin Locket is described several times as being a heavy, gold locket throughout the Half-Blood Prince. Regulus took the locket back to the House of Black, but I don't think it's there anymore. Why? Mundungus was spotted stealing artifacts from Grimmauld Place in the Half-Blood Prince, and it seemed oddly out of place. It didn't really hold any significance at all, at least for this particular book.

...besides, can't make it that easy for Potter to acquire a Horcrux.
X Prime 07-18-2005 03:49 PM
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Don't forget, in I think Chapter 2, Regulus Black is rather innocently mentioned as lasting only a few days after betraying / deserting Voldemort.
Xel 07-18-2005 04:47 PM
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Seriously, who wants to bet that Harry's scar/Harry himself is a Horcrux?


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I also agree one-hundred percent with PCT on Snape. This is, of course, because after all is said and done, I still love him... *cough* But seriously? Rowling's played the "OMG HE'S EVIL (but wait! maybe not!)" game waaaay too much for there not to be at least one more turn before the end. You have to watch yourself with slippery characters like that. It's undeniable that Draco would NOT have completed his mission. Therefore, Snape had to do it. There was no way around that. It's too much to hope that Snape would be fully redeemed before the end-- I don't expect that at all. Really, I kind of just have to accept that he's pretty much doomed to die now. It's just a matter of whose hands it's gonna be at.

It is interesting to me, however, how easy he went on Harry during their little face-off. Not only that, but the entire time, he's like "I can hear what you're saying, Potter *HINT HINT* so try harder!" I've always thought he's been showing Harry a kind of tough love, so to speak (he really does dislike the kid, I believe, but that's beside the point). Because whoever said it was right-- if Harry had let the fame go to his head, he wouldn't've learned SH*T. And that wouldn't have landed him in very good stead against Voldemort at all. And consider that Snape has known the prophecy-- and what Harry is destined to become-- ALL ALONG. That last bit is a good support for both his good and evil directions, but. Whatever happens... it's gonna be awesome.
Lady Tesser 07-18-2005 05:45 PM
Xel, I agree 100% with your first statement. It would explain A LOT.

Put me down for two galleons and a block of Honeyduke's chocolate. ^_^
Xel 07-18-2005 09:02 PM
I found a VERY comprehensive explanation/theory on the events at the end of HBP. It goes without saying that for those of you who don't know and don't want spoilers... don't read this.

Here you are!
Bllue 07-23-2005 08:10 PM
I HATE SPOILERS!!!!!! Of course I brought it upon myself by coosing to read all of that when I my self am only as far as learning at last what a horcrux is. I wound have probably been done by now, but my sister insists that she has to read it first scine I supposedly have read all of the other books before her, and yet she claims she discoverd Harry Potter before me. But who can resits reading Harry Potter when its right on your nightstand and your caring sister just so happens to still be asleep. (No, I do not get up at five in the morning) Besides, its either Harry Potter or Maya Angelou.... yeah, you get my point right?
spoiler (highlight to read):
I think the last horcrux is Harry's scar, becasue why would it hurt other wise to be near Voldemort?And just for good measure:
DIE! LAVENDER, DIE!!!!!! I feel sorry for Red--- I mean the stupid people who have never been in the same room with a Harry Potter item on purpose to be led by their stupidity to think Harry and Hermione would make a good couple, when it is and has always been evident that Ron and Hermione bicker like an old married couple, and most characters that do that have a very strong chance of ending up together. No offense ment to the people I actually do not know. I swear I was going to break something when Ron led Lavender into that room where Harry was with Hermione. I have to admit my heart jumped about a centimeter when I saw the words ' I love you, Hermione.' Of course, she was fixing his homework, but she blushed. I'm so glad he dumped her.(Lavender I mean. Mabey she'll end up with Dean, they could form an ' I've been dumped by a Weasly' club and ask Micheal Corner if he would like to join..Big Grin ) I'm stuped by what Draco has been doing in the room of requirement, or does that get answered later?

Stupid sister.
Btw, NVWC2006, I think that ther are like Kagome and Inuyasha, but don't worry, I won't hurt you. *Points at avatar*
Lady Tesser 07-23-2005 08:57 PM
Bllue - What Draco is doing in there will make your hair stand on end.

Pleased