The Bible Topic

Except, first of all the Old Testament is not simply the Torah (that's the first five books, the books of law, Genesis, Exodus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, and Leviticus, likely out of correct order). However, I am unsure as to how the Jewish holy books are sold, and therefore will assume all the books of wisdom, prophets, etc. would be included in a "set".

The main point I make is that, under general conception of the word, a collection of works is not the Bible unless it includes the entire old and new testaments. Otherwise, it is simply the "Old Testament" or the "New Testament". I have seen a stand-alone New Testament titled as such.

Good point, Dude.

So that means that canonical Judeo-Christian texts themselves seperated from the one on the other end of the hyphen, not compiled into the Holy Bible, should be seperately counted and not go towards the whole "bible" count. If you did, I think it would add up to a hella-more.

Either way...thats still a lot of paper to keep track of.

Speaking of Testaments, when in time did Christ and the Apostles throw out all the Jewish traditions? I mean, following only the base core teachings using both parts of the bible, you could very well be a Christian Jew.

Well, what happened is that Saint Paul and the Church (arguably in an attempt to be more commercial) decided that the Greek and other formerly pagan Christians would be fine without following all those traditions. It mostly started as a discussion about circumcision and if you had to convert to Judaism before Christianity, but it spilled over into the various laws in the Torah.

My church history is a little rusty, but I think that's the general gist of things.

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Originally posted by Dude Love Well, what happened is that Saint Paul and the Church (arguably in an attempt to be more commercial) decided that the Greek and other formerly pagan Christians would be fine without following all those traditions. It mostly started as a discussion about circumcision and if you had to convert to Judaism before Christianity, but it spilled over into the various laws in the Torah. My church history is a little rusty, but I think that's the general gist of things.

Well...wasn't Jesus's teachings just ment to be an upgrade and a patch to any existing discrepancies(or whatever) with Judaism?

It started as an upgrade...it turned into a total revamp...

Hoooooly Moses.

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Originally posted by D-Boy Well...wasn't Jesus's teachings just ment to be an upgrade and a patch to any existing discrepancies(or whatever) with Judaism? It started as an upgrade...it turned into a total revamp...

That's how some people think of it. And to a degree, a lot of people would say that's correct. I think of it as more of a way of saying "Now that you dealt with those laws, let's use something a bit more abstract, universal, and flexible". It's sort of like a faith graduation, where God is saying make judgments that sit well with this standard/criterion Jesus has laid down.

quote:

Hoooooly Moses.

You are not Robin, but I am Batman.

quote:

Originally posted by Dude Love quote: Originally posted by D-Boy Well...wasn't Jesus's teachings just ment to be an upgrade and a patch to any existing discrepancies(or whatever) with Judaism? It started as an upgrade...it turned into a total revamp... That's how some people think of it. And to a degree, a lot of people would say that's correct. I think of it as more of a way of saying "Now that you dealt with those laws, let's use something a bit more abstract, universal, and flexible". It's sort of like a faith graduation, where God is saying make judgments that sit well with this standard/criterion Jesus has laid down.

It's called Supersessionism, by the way--I mean, the line of thinking that Christianity "replaces" Judaism.

Actually, it has a lot of interesting Biblical parallels that early Christian Apologists used: such as the blessing passing from Easu to Jacob/Israel, Jews being compared to Cain (spurring the "Cain Paradox" as some theologians/historians call it), and the like.

Of course, it also helped lay the foundation for anti-Semetism (although the "Enlightenment" is also much to blame for it), which isn't great at all.

Actually, I recently partook in an interesting debate in my theology class questioning whether the Bible (specifically, the New Testament) is anti-Semetic, and whether Christianity itself is inherently anti-Semetic or, at the very least, anti-Judaic.

An intriguing discussion, if nothing else.

quote:

Originally posted by Dude Love quote: Originally posted by D-Boy Well...wasn't Jesus's teachings just ment to be an upgrade and a patch to any existing discrepancies(or whatever) with Judaism? It started as an upgrade...it turned into a total revamp... That's how some people think of it. And to a degree, a lot of people would say that's correct. I think of it as more of a way of saying "Now that you dealt with those laws, let's use something a bit more abstract, universal, and flexible". It's sort of like a faith graduation, where God is saying make judgments that sit well with this standard/criterion Jesus has laid down. quote: Hoooooly Moses. You are not Robin, but I am Batman.

OK. Let me see if I got it so far.
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IN THE BEGINNING:
God turns on the Light. Enjoys interplanetary pottery, makes man. From man, takes woman.

FAST FOWARD: Declares strict laws and several slaughters. A bit harsh.
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FF SOME MORE:
0 A.D.
The Big J is bornizzled. GOSPELS! Everyone sorta loosens up, and God becomes loving again.
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ANALYSIS: Humanity was treated like a child. In its infancy, there were harder rules, and as it grew up, responsibility was expected.

So looking at things from an odd divine standpoint, humanity is still in its "teens".

Very nice work, detective.

Edit: I guess I see where that comes from, FP. But anti-semitic? I dont think race is mentioned apart from the whole region of "non-believers" that are quarreled with. I would assume its like a whole slow conversion, where the Jewish peoples are taken in. Anyone else would be promptly slaughtered IMO, to keep up with that grand old tradition.

Wow, when I first found this thread, I didn't realize it would take on such an acedemic lean! Okay, I'm no scholar, but like everyone else, I have a few opinions. I was raised in a Bible based home, Church of God to be exact. I don't actively follow God's word the way I should (I have two kids, and my ex and I never went through with the marriage ceremony, though we signed all the necessary paperwork to do so) and we lived together and I do cuss on occassion and have a terrible obsession with men who are Big and mean and otherwise terrifying (Sabretooth from Marvel comics is a prime example) BUT...Even "good" Christians, Catholics, Muslims, and the whatnot don't always read their own materials... I have read most of the Bible, but certainly not all of it. Instead I try to find passages that are relevant to my current situation, and try to absorb whatever I can from those. To me, it helps just knowing (to some, I guess "believing") that God is there and that the answers will always be in the Bible, is comfort in itself. Faith is a powerful ally, no matter what religion you believe in!