The Bible Topic

TanookiJoe 08-27-2005 11:31 AM
quote:
Originally posted by X Prime
quote:
Originally posted by D-Boy
quote:
Originally posted by TanookiJoe
Of course, the OT and NT contradict themselves in many places, so that really doesn't clear up much. And the NT does, in fact, contradict itself on whether the old laws should be followed or not.


The contradictions come with the misstranslations. And dont forget God himself was pretty much angry at humanity since the Eden incident.


I'm still not too happy with hu-er, nevermind.

And while I'm not entirely sold on all of the contradictions stemming from mistranslations, one of the funnier ones turns out to be that 'thou shalt not kill' is a mistranslation. (Kill is actually supposed to be Murder. Yes, there is a difference.)


Actually, that's only a Christian thing. To the Jews, it's always been "murder". Jews have long resented what many view as a delibrate distortion to bring the Hebrew Bible more into accordance with the New Testament.
X Prime 08-27-2005 12:16 PM
I knew that, but that doesn't change that it was effectively a mistranslation.
harshfire 09-03-2005 02:02 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Dude Love

I believe it's also the most stolen book of all time. Irony Tongue

Well, I've never read the Bible cover to cover (though, as a Catholic, I'm probably obligated to). However, I always find there is some good moral or lesson behind the stories/books. Similar to Aesop's Fables (I believe that's a proper comparison).


I must agree. I have never read the book from to back, although I'm catholic...

Later days:
Rev
Jonny Axehandle 09-23-2005 07:28 PM
I set out to read the Bible cover-to-cover today. I think I have the solution to all the mistranslations:

1. Read the bible books in order(the majority of it is in order of the time it was written)
2. Take note of what God expects of you
3. Put each "rule" on a timeline
4. If the same issue comes up, change the rule according to the more reccent verse.
5. When you reach the end you will have a list of everything you need. (Which will not change through time according to the last few verses of Revelation)

Keep in mind that not everything is leteral. Some stuff is symbolic and requires thought. (The Ten Commandments are clear-cut and literal, but no one is sure what God's speech in Job means*) And some stories are in there for their morals(The Good Samaritan) Most importantly, talk to other Christians and get a second opinion.

Example:

The ten commandments(1000+ years BC) say you should not work on the sabbath(Saturday) but Jesus (30+ years AD) said that if there was work to be done it must be done. So the rule concerning the sabbath sums up to "Don't work on Saturday, unless it absolutely can't wait"

Also, to avoid mistranslations, get a Bible with footnotes that have alternate translations to the words.

And it would not hurt to have two different translations handy:

NIV:

Revelation 13:18 - This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.

KJV:

Revelation 13:18 - Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

According to the NIV, the beast's number is 666. That could mean six hundred and sixty-six OR three consecutive 6's. But according to the KJV, it is definetly six hundred and sixty-six NOT just three consecutive 6's.

Hope that helps people.
Zopwx2 09-24-2005 04:56 PM
Jonny Axehandle 09-24-2005 07:52 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Zopwx2
HISTORY OF THE BIBLE?


Ug. The same old "If God is so *something* or if he said *something* then why *something*?"

Here are some questions for those people: (From the big man himself)

Job 40:8 Would you discredit my justice? Would you condemn me to justify yourself? Do you have an arm like God's, and can your voice thunder like his? Then adorn yourself with glory and splendor, and clothe yourself in honor and majesty. Unleash the fury of your own wrath, look at every proud man and bring him low, look at every proud man and humble him, crush the wicked where they stand. Bury them all in the dust together; shroud their faces in the grave. Then I myself will admit to you that your own right hand can save you.
Generalissimo D 09-24-2005 08:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Jonny Axehandle
Job 40:8 Would you discredit my justice? Would you condemn me to justify yourself? Do you have an arm like God's, and can your voice thunder like his? Then adorn yourself with glory and splendor, and clothe yourself in honor and majesty. Unleash the fury of your own wrath, look at every proud man and bring him low, look at every proud man and humble him, crush the wicked where they stand. Bury them all in the dust together; shroud their faces in the grave. Then I myself will admit to you that your own right hand can save you.


That was brilliant. I think the super-abbreviated form of that is "I'm God. And until proven otherwise, you're logic is nothing."(or something along those lines, or at least in the same field as that. I'm not very good at paraphrasing.) Granted, it doesnt have the demeaning splendor so reserved for Him. I'm tired of that argument. "HYPOCRISY!!!!11 YOUR WRONG AND FLAWED!! LOLLERS!"(Hyperbolised for my own amusement, I thank you.). You'ld think the time people spent analysing all these errors the could be out doing some good.


Much thanks Johnny. I will now use that as the proverbial Tall, Frosty Glass of STFU whenever one of my idiot friends goes off on the contradictions and whatnot.
Jonny Axehandle 09-24-2005 08:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by D-Boy
Much thanks Johnny. I will now use that as the proverbial Tall, Frosty Glass of STFU whenever one of my idiot friends goes off on the contradictions and whatnot.


Don't thank me, I'm just doing my job:

Ephesians 6:17 Take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God

Super-abbreviated: When the world gives you crap, use the word of God as your weapon

To get back on track, I'm up to the story of Abraham. I found something interesting in Genesis 18 (The Three Visitors). It talks about Abraham being visited by 3 people, one of which he recognizes as God. I think the other two might be Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I knew Jesus made a few appearances in the Old Testament, but I never knew the entire trinity appeared in physical form at one single time.
Sharpshooter005 09-25-2005 02:39 AM
I like yours better, my response had always been...alot more cynical about people. It usually amounted to something like "mans interpretation of the word of God may be flawed, but it dosen't mean the essentials go completely out the window".

Which I guess could be boiled down to "People are kind of stupid, and some of this went over their heads. But the stuff about not murdering your neighbor for sport and what have you still applies".

edit: Though I've...had some MESSED UP theological discussions. Heres a gem that...it was amusing at the time, but I kind of hate myself for it.

On the perpetual virginity of Mary:

"Look, the point is this. If the immaculate conception happened, then after that it could have turned into 'Mary does Nazareth', that wouldn't retroactively make Jesus's conception any less immaculate"

I can safely say, I'd make one warped theology professor..
spiked-knives 10-21-2005 03:17 PM
Though i have no religion, nore desire one. I have gotta admit it is a great book. Alot of the stories seem thoughtout, have great moral lessons.

For one major reason i liked the Bible, was because it really shows the folly of man and how though a lot of people like to say they relate to these morals and follow them, they still do the opposite.


is it actually still a bestseller?
Jonny Axehandle 10-24-2005 10:52 PM
Just an update: I've read up to Exodus 34. I was suprised to find the law of Moses was, well, interesting. I think America really needs to take a look at it. It touches quite of few issues.

quote:
Originally posted by spiked-knives
is it actually still a bestseller?


Last I heard it still remains the #1 best seller of all time.
Generalissimo D 10-24-2005 11:25 PM
Yep...still a best selller.


Speaking of which...

quote:
On the perpetual virginity of Mary:

"Look, the point is this. If the immaculate conception happened, then after that it could have turned into 'Mary does Nazareth', that wouldn't retroactively make Jesus's conception any less immaculate"


True. Jesus did have siblings. I seriously need to get up there to kerslap Palp-I mean the Pope. Certain things of my faith need to be clarified.
The Fallen Phoenix 10-25-2005 05:16 PM
quote:
Originally posted by D-Boy
Yep...still a best selller.


Speaking of which...

quote:
On the perpetual virginity of Mary:

"Look, the point is this. If the immaculate conception happened, then after that it could have turned into 'Mary does Nazareth', that wouldn't retroactively make Jesus's conception any less immaculate"


True. Jesus did have siblings. I seriously need to get up there to kerslap Palp-I mean the Pope. Certain things of my faith need to be clarified.


That's a misconception. The author could have in fact meant literal brothers and sisters, but the Greek terms "adelphos" and "adelphoi" can also refer to distant relations, such as cousins.

Regardless of whether Jesus did or did not have brothers, the point is really irrelevent. That much I do agree with. There is no substantial proof to support either position, however, outside of Biblical interpretation. The fact that there can be differing interpretations, even among linguists, disproves the "fact" that the website puts forth (it is not evident that "adelphos" is used for direct, sibling relations).

Speaking of which, early Christians actually used the terms "adelphos" and "adelphoi" to refer to each other.

Finally, Catholic doctrine does not necessarily mandate Perpetual Virginity, nor is there a "worship of Mary" in the Catholic faith. These, too, are misconceptions--though admittedly, even some Catholics have misconceptions concerning these "doctrines."
Nine Kuze 10-25-2005 05:44 PM
That's was very deep, Forum Phantom. A lot of it went over my head, but it was deep and interesting non the less.

Anyway, yeah the Bible is the most sold book in all time and the #2 all time best sellers book is Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf. I read that a long time ago and I thought that was interesting.
Peace.
Generalissimo D 10-25-2005 06:18 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Paradigm City Hustla
That's was very deep, Forum Phantom. A lot of it went over my head, but it was deep and interesting non the less.

Anyway, yeah the Bible is the most sold book in all time and the #2 all time best sellers book is Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf. I read that a long time ago and I thought that was interesting.
Peace.


Mein Kampf is 2nd?

I was under the assumption that one book by the Chinese Communist guy was second...
Nine Kuze 10-25-2005 06:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by D-Boy
quote:
Originally posted by Paradigm City Hustla
That's was very deep, Forum Phantom. A lot of it went over my head, but it was deep and interesting non the less.

Anyway, yeah the Bible is the most sold book in all time and the #2 all time best sellers book is Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf. I read that a long time ago and I thought that was interesting.
Peace.


Mein Kampf is 2nd?

I was under the assumption that one book by the Chinese Communist guy was second...


Um, I did read that Hitler's book was second a long time ago but I do have a pretty damn good memory.

Maybe ol' boy (what was his name? Mao-something like that? Somebody help) is third or maybe in the top five because there's a lot of people in China to buy his book.
Peace.
Generalissimo D 10-25-2005 06:56 PM
Yeah... Mao's book.

Punched it into google and sure enough, I was reaffirmed.

quote:

Quotations From Chairman Mao Tse-Tung - 900 million
Author: Mao Tse-Tung

Most people are more familiar with the book under its nickname: The Little Red Book . First published in 1966, it sheds light on the Chinese dictator's views on life, economics, and politics. Fairly poetic in style, Mao's fervent beliefs of the Communist ideology shine through.

Excerpt: "We should support whatever the enemy opposes and oppose whatever the enemy supports."


Sources:
1
2
Mike 10-25-2005 07:02 PM
I would guess that Mao's book was forced on everyone in China, so could it really count?
The Fallen Phoenix 10-25-2005 07:16 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Mike
I would guess that Mao's book was forced on everyone in China, so could it really count?


Though Mao's book would undoubtedly be a best-seller for that very reason, I would think that the book that is probably most read in the Far East--China included--is Luo Guanzhong's The Romance of the Three Kingdoms.

I can't remember where I read that facet of information, however...

Upon further thought, it appears most likely that the Bible, New Testament included, is the book that appears number 1 on most, if not all, all-time Best-selling booklists.

On the other hand, D-Boy has a point that the Old Testament would invariably be purchaced/produced more often regardless, whether under the "Bible" umbrella or not.

Presuming the Old Testament is circulated by itself, which I think is. I am not entirely sure about that, however. Granted, I cannot divine any reason why it would not be as, based on my (admittedly limited) knowledge of Judaism, I do not recall any justification against it...
Generalissimo D 10-25-2005 07:25 PM
Hey..thats a great promotion idea. Become a dictator then write a book. Beats tours.

BOT:

I see it like this:

The Old Testament(Torah)
The New Testament(Gospels)


The Gospels are dependant of the Torah, and while can be stand alone, are often included with the old testament.

Consider that the OT is still in stand-alone production(GO JUDIASM) while the NT is almost invariably printed with the OT. So..all things consider...the Old Testament would probably be the more sold or at least more produced.

Just my thoughts.