What's the archetype's secret?

What's the archetype? This is a megadeus of course. But what after? People believe the archetype is an old prototype of megadeus. The archetype in the episode 4 was abandonned. I personnally believe the archetype is the skuleton of nearly every megadeus. A skuleton without carapace. When in the episode 13, Norman was repairing Big O (because Big Duo damaged Big O in the episode 12), we could see the hidden face of Big O. Its ' human ' face we know hides another face that was the same than the archetype face. That's why I say the archetype is the skuleton of all the megadeus; Maybe only Big O and Big Duo. I don't believe the archetype is the skuleton of Dorothy One or Big Fau, and other megadeus we saw...... Comment .

Thank you to have commented my post. Now I know more about 'the Archetype'.

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Originally posted by samirsouleyman What's the archetype? This is a megadeus of course. But what? People believe the archetype is an old prototype of megadeus. The archetype in the episode 3 was abandonned. I personnally believe the archetype is the skuleton of nearly every megadeus. When in the episode 13, Norman was repairing Big O (because Big Duo damaged Big O in the episode 12), we could see the hidden face of Big O. Its ' human ' face we know hides another face that was the same than the archetype face. That's why I say the archetype is the skuletol of all the megadeus; Maybe only Big O and Big Duo. I don't believe the archetype is the skuleton of Dorothy One or Big Fau, and other megadeus we saw. ..... Comment .

Yeah, its pretty much agreed upon that the archetype is a prototype skeletal megadeus. A sort of ancestor to the other Bigs.

But yeah its pretty similar to Big O's while the Duo one is slightly different, but the resemblance is there:







Another thing to note though, the leviathan 17 megadeus also had the same 'rainbow teeth' bussiness, and so did duo inferno when its face was destroyed.

I was under the impression that while the "archetype" located in the "steel basement" (or more specifically, in the expo center) was similar to the "Leviathan" megadeus, it was different than say, Glinda or Constanze, not because of it's (lack of) completion, but because of where it was dredged up from. In other words, Constanze and Glinda were built post-Event, while the archetype lived underground in the steel basement, in or near the lair of Big Venus, and thus Dorothy's reaction to it (not just the syncing up, but the actual fear shown). The archetype that ol' Crispy fooled around with, in a sense, is a "demon".

More proof to that theory is in Act 24, The Big Fight. After Roger and Big O use the anchor hooks to lift Duo Inferno, then blow him up with the machine guns and missiles, look at where the cockpit is, you can see the spinal column of the archetypical skeleton rising above Gabriel.

But, I do not think that the archetype is exactly the same as the skeletons for the Bigs. One clue is the claw hand on archetype. Another is the fact that he has prehensile feet and is able to tug Big O down with one in Act 4.

Also, Archetype is just too bendy, he has no support about his midsection and just an exposed spine joining top and bottom. It makes you wonder how he's able to stay upright at all, even though it's obvious he has trouble doing it.

Diverse, I'd point out that human skeletons are just like that... Skeletons can bend far more than the complete human body can, and good luck finding one moving upright.

Archetype always reminded me more of one of the 'bots from Evangelion-- agile and able to leap and whatnot. His name is exactly what he is, though-- and archetype.. so of course he's not exactly the same as the currently existing Bigs. There's a whole load of possibility for backstory involving him, though.. I'd like to learn more about who built it and why it was scrapped for the final models of the Bigs, and.. yeah, sometimes I'm really, really in support of a season three. My mood flip-flops about it a lot.

The theory that the Archetype is an archetype is based on the single use of that word by Roger Smith, who was just guessing.

The head is, as others have mentioned, similar to that of Big O, Big Duo, etc. -- and also Behemoth and the Sea Titan.

We saw Dorothy 1's spinal column in Act 2, so we shouldn't get too happy about the idea that Dorothy 1 and Glinda are different from pre-Event Megadeuses, any more than we should assume that R. Dorothy is different from pre-Event androids.

Roger finds the Archetype's body missing and follows it to where Big Duo and Big Fau are being reconstructed. Obviously, it was broken down for spare parts, or at least they HOPED to break it down for spare parts.

All this implies that the Archetype was a Big, but without the armor. Well, why not? There wasn't anyone to tell us what the Archetype's name was. For all we know, its real name was "Big Bender." So even if you believe names more than the evidence of your own senses, you have to admit that, since we don't know the Archetype's real name, we don't know if the name had "Big" in it.

both dorothy 1 and 2 (wayneright) were both based on tim waynerights knowldge about pre-event megadei and androids. Although they were both built after the event.

So its possible that they may share certain design characteristics, but dorothy 1 didn't have that whole judging bussiness, and other funky features like o, duo and fau.

In my own personal naming scheme that judging thing is important in considering a megadeus a "big"

Well my theory about the "archetypes" are merely based on where they appear first and Dorothy's reaction to them. She exhibits no linking or strange android babble from any of the other megadei encountered (except perhaps Dorothy I) - not Orsrail, Dagon, Beck Victory Deluxe (no surprise there), not even Glinda, another of Wayneright's creations (?). Was this because they had armor? The Leviathan megdeus seemed plenty finished to me.

The "archetype" in Act 4 lived underground in the expo center at the end of a cooridor of the "steel basement/hallway". The "steel basement/hallway" is, like Roger mentions, newer in appearance. It also gives off a sense of great fear and causes Roger to panic. We also see ghosts down there. In Act 26, Big Venus rises from under Paradigm City, perhaps from this same area. So I've been led to believe that the "archetype" in Act 4 was different than, say, Constanze.

Leviathan first appeared in the wasteland outside of Paradigm City. Who knows where the hell Shwartzwald got it from or even if it really had anything to do with him at all. What's outside of Paradigm? Nothingness. Desert. Debris (possibly from previous incarnations of Paradigm that were tossed aside rather than erased?). We're shown Shwartzwald with Big Duo in a hanger in Act 17. Was that hanger in the desert area? Roger's use of the word "archetype" when he wonders if Leviathan is the same as the underground one may just be because of the similarities in the appearance of that one and Leviathan, but I wonder...

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Originally posted by A Clockwork Tomato For all we know, its real name was "Big Bender."

Haha! Bender!

Dominus: Big Bender, showtime!
Bender: Hey, nobody tells me what to do. It's showtime when I'm damned well ready for it. Now shut up and get me another beer. *belches fire*

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Originally posted by Diverse Considerations quote: Originally posted by A Clockwork Tomato For all we know, its real name was "Big Bender." Haha! Bender! Dominus: Big Bender, showtime! Bender: Hey, nobody tells me what to do. It's showtime when I'm damned well ready for it. Now shut up and get me another beer. *belches fire*

BWHAHAHHAHAAH ROFLLLLLLLL!!! Oh god! ^_~""" I'll have to try drawing that some time!! Hahahaha!!! ^_~"""

AS for what I beleive (without a long Beth like make beleive world explanation! ^_~"") I think its got to be a proto-type for the megadusses! ^_^"" OPr like a pre one something likes that.

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Originally posted by Big Waddle Inferno She exhibits no linking or strange android babble from any of the other megadei encountered (except perhaps Dorothy I) - not Orsrail, Dagon, Beck Victory Deluxe (no surprise there), not even Glinda, another of Wayneright's creations (?). Was this because they had armor? The Leviathan megdeus seemed plenty finished to me.

But didn't she talk to the Leviathan? I don't have the second season to review, but I thought she did. However I can't remember what she was saying to it anyway.

Perhaps the archetype was scraped for the same reason an old 286 computer is scraped; it became obsolite ...they just came up with better designs and better technology. In my opinion, I think it was a predecessor. Who knows ... perhaps it was in that kind of shape in Act 4 because others had tried to strip what they needed from it already.

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Originally posted by red tomato quote: Originally posted by Big Waddle Inferno She exhibits no linking or strange android babble from any of the other megadei encountered (except perhaps Dorothy I) - not Orsrail, Dagon, Beck Victory Deluxe (no surprise there), not even Glinda, another of Wayneright's creations (?). Was this because they had armor? The Leviathan megdeus seemed plenty finished to me. But didn't she talk to the Leviathan?

I was referring to both so-called "archetypes", the one in Act 4 and Leviathan in Act 17.

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Originally posted by Michael Seebach: [Zopwx2] So its possible that they may share certain design characteristics, but dorothy 1 didn't have that whole judging bussiness, and other funky features like o, duo and fau.

I suppose you're talking about the "Cast in the Name of God ... Ye Not Guilty" bit.

But we don't know whether Dorothy 1 had that or not. Just because we never saw that function, that doesn't mean it didn't exist. There's plenty of room for a cockpit and a core memory in Dorothy 1. For all we know, Beck just hot-wired it for remote control because he wanted to send Dorothy 1 off in one direction while he escaped with the loot in another.

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Originally posted by A Clockwork Tomato quote: Originally posted by Michael Seebach: [Zopwx2] So its possible that they may share certain design characteristics, but dorothy 1 didn't have that whole judging bussiness, and other funky features like o, duo and fau. I suppose you're talking about the "Cast in the Name of God ... Ye Not Guilty" bit. But we don't know whether Dorothy 1 had that or not. Just because we never saw that function, that doesn't mean it didn't exist. There's plenty of room for a cockpit and a core memory in Dorothy 1. For all we know, Beck just hot-wired it for remote control because he wanted to send Dorothy 1 off in one direction while he escaped with the loot in another.

I'm not in the mood for "just because we didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen" bussiness.

First we gotta remember that the first episode isn't completely reliable.... (zepplins?).

Also dorothy 1 was built after the event, by soldano and designed by wayneright. (who may or may not have had experience with bigs before the event) Unlike some of the other dei who were either found or discovered.

Thats why I don't consider Dorothy 1, Euminidies, Carnot & Co., Beck Victory 1&2, and Contztance bigs.

You could argue for osrail or dagon... since they both revolved slighty around the idea of searching for a master (dominus).

Osrail seeking out bonnie frasier and dagon searching for its dominus.

But they seemed like older and/or specialized megadei.

...but I still wouldn't call 'em bigs.

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Originally posted by Michael Seebach: [Zopwx2] both dorothy 1 and 2 (wayneright) were both based on tim waynerights knowldge about pre-event megadei and androids. Although they were both built after the event. So its possible that they may share certain design characteristics, but dorothy 1 didn't have that whole judging bussiness, and other funky features like o, duo and fau. In my own personal naming scheme that judging thing is important in considering a megadeus a "big"

I've often wondered about this.

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We know that Dorothy survives the second event in the last episode. Since Dorothy and Big O seem to part of the same whole in some sense

, perhaps Dorothy comes from before the Event just as Big O did.

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Perhaps her 'father' realized she was part of a megadeus

and built Dorothy 1 to ceompelte her?

I believe that the three Archetypes (The one from act 4, Leviathan and Behemoth) were prototypes for the Bigs. They all seem to be orientated around the same types of combat (air, water and ground) So it is possible that they were early attempts at the Bigs OR that they started the event by attacking the world, some were captured and the Bigs were created. They beat the Archetypes and then went crazy.... Then the event happened. Well, that's what I think.

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They all seem to be orientated around the same types of combat (air, water and ground)

Where do you get the air type from out of Archetype Behemoth and Leviathon?

Also I believe that the Archetype is not a big itself but a prototype (sp?). Or maybe a prototype for all megadueses.

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Originally posted by Naraku quote: They all seem to be orientated around the same types of combat (air, water and ground) Where do you get the air type from out of Archetype Behemoth and Leviathon? Also I believe that the Archetype is not a big itself but a prototype (sp?). Or maybe a prototype for all megadueses.

I believe he's making reference to Vera's comment about the Behemoth of the Land and the Leviathon of the sea. But all of these archtypes were found or work, underground.

There different "types" of Bigs. When you think about it, Big Fau is better suited to the water, Big Duo to the air and Big O to the land.

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So it is possible that they were early attempts at the Bigs OR that they started the event by attacking the world, some were captured and the Bigs were created. They beat the Archetypes and then went crazy.... Then the event happened. Well, that's what I think.

As far as this goes, while I like this idea, it can be disputed by the flashbacks that Roger has( if you decide that they are reliable ). We see the remains of not one, but many Leviathons ( or Hydras maybe). If they are prototypes, then there are probably just the three. Also, it would be hard to believe that production was geared up that fast to produce the Bigs to fight them.

Madrona

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Where do you get the air type from out of Archetype Behemoth and Leviathon?

If I remember correctly, the Archetype jumped around a lot, and (This next bit is just opinion, but that what it looked like to me) when it jumped it would glide briefly.