The Comic Book Topic

Sephiroth 03-14-2005 08:59 PM
I recently got into the Hellboy Series, so I've been picking up those where ever I can find them. I picked up "Wake The Devil" yesterday which was very good. I"m also (as those who know me are well aware) a big fan of Jhonen Vasquez's comics i.e. Johnny The Homicidal Maniac, Squee, I feel Sick, and the Filler Bunny Series. I'm a big Spawn fan as well.

I actually have a ton of reallly obscure comics (Sleepwalker?), which I picked up from KET(public television network) during a phonathon, because I was so cute as a kid Big Grin . That got me started on Spiderman and the X-men as well, which are still some of my favorite comics.

The only other comic I really like is Batman, of which I have one graphic novel, The Long Halloween, which is really good. I would reccomend it. It focuses a lot more on the detective side of Batman, and its also pretty creepy. The very end with Harvey Dent's wife actually scared me a lot. The look on her face was really creepy.
AlexRosewater 03-14-2005 11:11 PM
I went to my local comic book store and bought Punisher: Circle of Blood, Punisher russian connections, some random wolverine comics and the first issuie of Nick Fury's The Shield. all great reads personal.
BethMcBeth 03-15-2005 03:32 AM
This past weekend I was in a book sotre and glanced at a few of the orginial teen tititans issues wow defently a major difference in the character desings of then and now but it was cool ^_^""
Lynnet 03-17-2005 09:11 PM
Expanded the Andi Watson corner of my bookshelf this week.

Got Geisha previously, in large part thanks to Grunger Kittie Version 1's recommendation.

Now I've found a store that carries more Andi...started with Love Fights #1 and will be reading Breakfast After Noon soon.

I continue to adore his character studies, especially the cat owners. The art/dialogue aren't all that memorable in and of themselves...but he is an excellent character writer.

Still haven't picked up Skeleton Key...but I can't believe Nickelodeon optioned it and never used it. I'd think a goth girl travelling between her world and medieval Japan with a kitsune would hit all the right audience targets.
JAYCZero 03-19-2005 02:06 AM
Well I used to have a whole bunch of Collections of Comic Book's
Superman , Batman , Spiderman, The Hulk. Ever since I was a kid
that's where I started to get into to series Artwork , I can now
do Superhero Illustrations of Spiderman , The Hulk , Superman
well maybe one of these day's I'll post a few of My Artworks
if I have any or make any. But Nevertheless I am so into
Comic Books , One of My Alltime Favorite Superheroes is
Spiderman- his Agility , He has gotten himself into many
Death defying Situations , He's the Legend somehow I
feel that I can relate to this Character.
Not only he's a Webslinger but he ranked up into
The Most Powerful Superhero in the Marvel Universe
when he became Cosmic Spiderman.
Batman is one of My
all time Favorite Characters as
well, he doesn't have any Superpowers whatsoever
he's just a mere Mortal. But his Master Skills on
Martial Arts brung him to the Success of being
the Dark Knight Legend of Gotham City and
The Worlds Greatist Detective. I'm into
Marvel Comics , DC , Nu Image I just
I used to create one of my own
Comic books when I was a Kid.
I created a Character similar to
Spawn and I did the Coloring Graphics to it
but I lost that dam comic book artwork wish I had
so I can show it too yaa, I woulda scanned it. lol
but I lost almost half of my comics.
Wazpy 03-19-2005 07:36 AM
My friends and I read Sin City volumes 1, 3, and 4. If the movie has as much over the top violence as the comics do, its going to be a blast Big Grin I love Marv most. He's like a tank made of flesh.

I've also read a bunch more old Marvel and DC comics from the 70's and 80's. They suck, but I like the feeling that I'm travelling through time. Dig it?
relenz 03-26-2005 05:55 PM
We prefer the underground stuff, generally less violent and more...


more sociological.

A perfect example is Serenity Rose, a Slave Labor Graphics title.

Their website is

www.heartshapedskull.com.

We use a profile on the forums there, but lately it's hard to be understod with all the randomspeak going on...
Sephiroth 04-15-2005 08:21 PM
Well, I just picked up Sin City: The Hard Goodbye today, and it is awesome. I knew it was good from the movies, but I had no idea how good it could be. Easily, one of the greatest action comics I have ever read. It was so good that I couldn't put it down, even when it gave me a splitting headache from reading in the car. If I hadn't been compelled to buy Hellsing 6, I would have purchased A Dame To Kill For as well. Alas, perhaps another day.
Darth Nat 04-15-2005 08:36 PM
I broke down and bought the first comic book that I have purchased in a long time. I picked up The Dark Knight Returns after a friend heartily recommended it to me, and I wasn't disappointed. I really enjoyed the storyline and themes, and I thought the first and final chapters of the story were particularly well-done.

I also ordered the first archived set of New Teen Titans comics, but it won't ship from Amazon until the end of the month, unfortunately.
Sephiroth 05-06-2005 05:02 PM
Well, I picked up two Batman graphic novels today. The prequel to the Long Halloween, Haunted Knight. That was very good, and it had a large story on the Scarecrow, which I enjoyed quite a bit.

I also picked up, The Dark Knight Returns. Greatest Batman Story Ever. Frank Miller is a genius in every way possible. His vision of the Joker was brilliant, and actually made dislike him a little bit. The story telling was great, and I enjoyed every chapter.

Also, on a really wierd note, I went to the library today and they had a new building added on. It was filled with comics and manga. It packed with them. I didn't go in, unfortunatly I had to do some research for a paper.
Darth Nat 05-06-2005 05:57 PM
I have a bit of trouble with Miller's portrayal of the Joker, even though I think he's a well-done character in the Dark Knight Returns storyline, even if he is there more to prove a point than anything. Whereas other writers have tried to portray the Joker as a man twisted by circumstances who is absolutely insane, Miller's Joker is just plain evil. The part where he comments on how he could be up in a helicopter looking down on bodies lined up in geometric patterns and it would never be enough always gives me the chills, just because it shows just how sick and twisted the guy is. The Joker just doesn't seem crazy enough to me. He seems in perfect control of his faculties as he's killing hundreds of people, and he doesn't even crack one lousy joke.

And if you haven't already, you should check out Batman: Year One. It is Frank Miller's take on Batman's origin, as well as James Gordon's first year in Gotham. It's very similar to Dark Knight in terms of style, with lots of internal monologues by Batman and Gordon. It's just been re-released in preparation for Batman Begins, and it's certainly worth checking out. My only complaint is that it is a bit short (only around 100 pages), but it is still one of the greatest comic book stories in existence.
Sephiroth 05-06-2005 06:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Darth Nat
I have a bit of trouble with Miller's portrayal of the Joker, even though I think he's a well-done character in the Dark Knight Returns storyline, even if he is there more to prove a point than anything. Whereas other writers have tried to portray the Joker as a man twisted by circumstances who is absolutely insane, Miller's Joker is just plain evil. The part where he comments on how he could be up in a helicopter looking down on bodies lined up in geometric patterns and it would never be enough always gives me the chills, just because it shows just how sick and twisted the guy is. The Joker just doesn't seem crazy enough to me. He seems in perfect control of his faculties as he's killing hundreds of people, and he doesn't even crack one lousy joke.

And if you haven't already, you should check out Batman: Year One. It is Frank Miller's take on Batman's origin, as well as James Gordon's first year in Gotham. It's very similar to Dark Knight in terms of style, with lots of internal monologues by Batman and Gordon. It's just been re-released in preparation for Batman Begins, and it's certainly worth checking out. My only complaint is that it is a bit short (only around 100 pages), but it is still one of the greatest comic book stories in existence.


I have to agree that the Joker's lack of jokes was very odd. He was rather serious most of the time. However, I think after being comatose he probably wasn't the same kind of guy. Besides that, I'm sure he saw the end coming. He probably knew that this was going to be his last hoorah, so it probably wouldn't have been very humorous. However, let us not forget that he didn't laugh when he killed Barbara Gordon either. He still seemed pretty crazy.
spoiler (highlight to read):
I mean he snapped his own neck and laughed the entire time.
If that isn't crazy, I don't know what is.
Darth Nat 05-06-2005 06:23 PM
Wait a minute, Joker killed Barbara Gordon? I thought he merely turned her into a paraplegic, at least in the official Batman storyline. And the entire time he was doing sadistic things to her, he was making an elaborate joke. I don't remember Barbara even being in Dark Knight Returns, if you're referring to some event in that comic.

Regarding that spoiler:
spoiler (highlight to read):
I'm still very confused about the Joker's suicide. Even though I'm convinced that he did indeed kill himself, I've often wondered why his last words were shaded in the grey color used for Batman's thoughts. I've heard theories that Batman did indeed actually kill the Joker, which is what he was prepared to do in the comic, and being so badly injured was hallucinating that he did not kill the Joker. I don't think this was the case, but I still can't come up with a good reason why Batman's color coding was used in that scene.
Hienrich Ele 05-06-2005 07:04 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Sephiroth
quote:
Originally posted by Darth Nat
I have a bit of trouble with Miller's portrayal of the Joker, even though I think he's a well-done character in the Dark Knight Returns storyline, even if he is there more to prove a point than anything. Whereas other writers have tried to portray the Joker as a man twisted by circumstances who is absolutely insane, Miller's Joker is just plain evil. The part where he comments on how he could be up in a helicopter looking down on bodies lined up in geometric patterns and it would never be enough always gives me the chills, just because it shows just how sick and twisted the guy is. The Joker just doesn't seem crazy enough to me. He seems in perfect control of his faculties as he's killing hundreds of people, and he doesn't even crack one lousy joke.

And if you haven't already, you should check out Batman: Year One. It is Frank Miller's take on Batman's origin, as well as James Gordon's first year in Gotham. It's very similar to Dark Knight in terms of style, with lots of internal monologues by Batman and Gordon. It's just been re-released in preparation for Batman Begins, and it's certainly worth checking out. My only complaint is that it is a bit short (only around 100 pages), but it is still one of the greatest comic book stories in existence.


I have to agree that the Joker's lack of jokes was very odd. He was rather serious most of the time. However, I think after being comatose he probably wasn't the same kind of guy. Besides that, I'm sure he saw the end coming. He probably knew that this was going to be his last hoorah, so it probably wouldn't have been very humorous. However, let us not forget that he didn't laugh when he killed Barbara Gordon either. He still seemed pretty crazy.
spoiler (highlight to read):
I mean he snapped his own neck and laughed the entire time.
If that isn't crazy, I don't know what is.



I view Dark Knight, as you said, the last Hoorah, for both Batman and Joker. It is as if the world is winding down. Batman is debated about by the media, and the Joker is, indeed not himself. I think they both know that their time was over.

Both Joker and Batman knew that they would end up killing eachother. Read "The Killing Joke" for more proof. So all along they knew that it was over soon. Batman proves this to the Joker when he says "You're playing the wrong game, the Old game." This shows that Batman knows this is it. There will be no more Capture and Escape for the Joker, and Joker realizes this during the showdown.


Love that book.

quote:
Wait a minute, Joker killed Barbara Gordon? I thought he merely turned her into a paraplegic, at least in the official Batman storyline. And the entire time he was doing sadistic things to her, he was making an elaborate joke. I don't remember Barbara even being in Dark Knight Returns, if you're referring to some event in that comic.


It was to prove that "All it takes is one bad day to drive someone mad".

It takes place in "The Killing Joke", which I love because Batman and Joker are so very similar.

Batman's parents died. Batman did go insane. But he used it to fuel him to do good. He isn't happy-go-lucky crazy, but does a sane person dress like a bat?

Joker's wife and kid dies. He was going to help two crooks break in the Chemical Plant to get money for them, but not that his family is dead, there is no point. But the crooks make him do it anyway. He gets a chemical bath and that just pushed him over the edge he was nearing when he heard about his family.

Batman had a bad day, turned good.

Joker had a bad day, turned bad.
Darth Nat 05-06-2005 07:26 PM
I don't think Batman's insane. He's off-kilter for sure and eccentric, but not insane. Batman's too logical to be insane, and I think Year One sums up pretty well why Batman would dress as a bat: to scare the crap out of his enemies. He vowed vengeance on the underworld, and when he discovered that he wasn't really all that effective when fighting under a simple disguise, he concocted the Batman idea. It's actually a pretty rational explanation for something that isn't rational. In short, I've never really cared for the portrayal of Batman as being just as insane as the people he fights. He's obsessed and brooding, yes; but not insane.

And in the end, I think Batman put it best when confronting the Joker about his "one bad day" theory: "Maybe it was just you all the time." Plus, who knows what drove the Joker over the edge to begin with? His true, 100% certain origin is never explained, especially since he says "Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another... If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!"

I've never liked the portrayal of Batman in The Killing Joke, and I think it is one of the poorest among the popular Batman stories. Batman seems out of character. Trying to rehabilitate the Joker is not his style at all, and Batman is not that caring. At all. This is a guy who wears a costume just for the sake of scaring people out of their minds. And in Dark Knight Returns, Batman proves that he would not kill the Joker, even after he has prepared himself for that very action for the majority of the third section. I guess it depends on your interpretation, though.
Hienrich Ele 05-06-2005 07:53 PM
I went too far using insane, I should have, and intented to, have it come off as in "Something snapped". Insane people are logical (well, yes, but not Batman logical). So yes, you are correct there.

For the multiple past thing, I assume that the Joker would imagine it a little differently each time, but still have the same basic foundation.

And as for Batman's portrayal, yeah, sort of off. I love the fact that Batman has some compassion, because I always pictured him to be very loyal to his friends, but to the Joker? Maybe. I like to think Batman is one who would just like to have the bloodshed of the Joker stopped, though "Whatever it takes".


But yes, it does depend on one's interpretation of the stories.
Sephiroth 05-06-2005 08:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Darth Nat
Wait a minute, Joker killed Barbara Gordon? I thought he merely turned her into a paraplegic, at least in the official Batman storyline. And the entire time he was doing sadistic things to her, he was making an elaborate joke. I don't remember Barbara even being in Dark Knight Returns, if you're referring to some event in that comic.

Regarding that spoiler:
spoiler (highlight to read):
I'm still very confused about the Joker's suicide. Even though I'm convinced that he did indeed kill himself, I've often wondered why his last words were shaded in the grey color used for Batman's thoughts. I've heard theories that Batman did indeed actually kill the Joker, which is what he was prepared to do in the comic, and being so badly injured was hallucinating that he did not kill the Joker. I don't think this was the case, but I still can't come up with a good reason why Batman's color coding was used in that scene.


Umm, allow me to correct myself. Barabara Gordon is the name of Commissioner Gordon's wife as well as daugther. Actually ex-wife, which is the problem. The Joker kills Gordon's wife, which upon further investigation is at the time, SARAH Gordon (it was during No Man's Land by the way) Though he did indeed paralyze Barbara.

As for Batman's sanity, I think it is wavering. The Dark Knight Returns definatly questioned it. I mean, he hears voices, generally that is what crazy people do. Its really by not killing that Batman differentiates himself from those he arrests.

Also, outside of The Dark Knight Returns, Batman does indeed
spoiler (highlight to read):
kill the Joker
I have seen the comic that it happens in. I think that is an envitable consequence of their fighting. Batman undoubtedly does blame himself for those the Joker has killed. He has had so many chances to stop him forever, but has never done so. Its the line he has to cross, but constantly refuses to. It slowly drives him mad, and that is the Joker's goal. His main purpose is to snap Batman. If he has to die to do it, he will, and that I think is why he kills him self in The Dark Knight Returns. More than just to get him arrested, the Joker wants to see him fail, and snap knowing that there is blood on his hands. Even though he didn't cause the death, knowing that he didn't stop it would, in Joker's mind, be a death blow.
Darth Nat 05-07-2005 10:06 AM
Well, in the Batman canon, the Joker is not dead. I'm sure there are plenty of comics out there that depict his death, but like Dark Knight Returns, none of them are part of the official storyline. The ultimate problem I have with Batman killing is the same problem I have with Batman using a gun: it doesn't seem right. This is a man that was so traumatized my death that he started dressing up as a bat and fighting crime, so wouldn't it absolutely destroy him and his ideals if he ever had to kill someone, even his most hated enemy?

And yeah, I remembered the thing about Barbara being Gordon's first wife. That really screwed me up in Year One, since I'm so used to Sarah being Gordon's wife, and then suddenly in that book his wife was named Barbara. I guess we know where he got the name for his daughter, then.

But what happens to his son? Does the Joker kill James Jr., too? I've never really heard of him outside of Year One...
Sephiroth 05-07-2005 10:37 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Darth Nat
Well, in the Batman canon, the Joker is not dead. I'm sure there are plenty of comics out there that depict his death, but like Dark Knight Returns, none of them are part of the official storyline. The ultimate problem I have with Batman killing is the same problem I have with Batman using a gun: it doesn't seem right. This is a man that was so traumatized my death that he started dressing up as a bat and fighting crime, so wouldn't it absolutely destroy him and his ideals if he ever had to kill someone, even his most hated enemy?

And yeah, I remembered the thing about Barbara being Gordon's first wife. That really screwed me up in Year One, since I'm so used to Sarah being Gordon's wife, and then suddenly in that book his wife was named Barbara. I guess we know where he got the name for his daughter, then.

But what happens to his son? Does the Joker kill James Jr., too? I've never really heard of him outside of Year One...


Yes, killing somone would destroy his ideals. That is precisely the point. Batman won't kill, but he is cursed with knowing that because of this, killers continue to walk to streets. The Joker won't reform, he will never stop killing until he himself is killed. He will keep escaping, and keep killing until something stops him. Batman blames himself for the deaths of everyone the Joker kills (not only in the Dark Knight Returns, in Hush Chapter 7 he says the says it as well). It really is inevitable. It is going to happen. At some point, the Joker will do something that will push Batman over the edge. And really, if the Joker can accomplish nothing else, that alone would make him happy. Seeing Batman shattered by breaking his own promises would be the ultimate comedic irony for him.

Barbara (wife, not daughter) took him with her when she left Gordon. The Joker does not kill him, at least as far as I know.
Pero_Is_Crying 05-19-2005 01:12 PM
Has anyone ever read The Maxx? Yeah, it's an Image title and it's been dead for years, but it's the only series that ever inspired me to throw fist fulls of cash at the guy at the comic store for something not RPG related. I've got most of the series, but there are some gaps I'd like to fill. A short animated series based on the first quarter of the story appeared on MTV a few years back that was (shockingly, considering the source) pretty good. Anybody who likes the head trip that Big O takes you on would probably dig it.

The Maxx, for anyone who missed it, is about a masked homeless amnesiac who thinks (erroneously) that he's a superhero and flashes back and forth between the real world and a strange parallel dreamworld that he calls "the Outback". Over the course of the story it is revealed that the Outback isn't Maxx's hallucination-- it's an aspect of his social worker's psyche that he somehow got tangled up in years ago. The man behind the revelations about Maxx and the Outback is Mr. Gone, a third rate sourcerer, metaphysician, and serial rapist who's been bringing creatures from the Outback into the real world for his own ends. Mr. Gone has hidden connections to Julie (the social worker) and one of her other charges, Sarah, that are revealed slowly in the first 20 issues. For a headless villian, he's pretty with it.

The second half of the series is more about Sarah, and redeeming Mr. Gone with assorted side stories thrown in. Regrettably, the series stopped before the story wrapped up, disappointingly but somewhat appropriately leaving the characters in limbo as existance blinks out.

Visually, these books are amazing. Sam Kieth uses everything short of the kitchen sink to draw and color one of the most bizarre yet gripping comics you'll ever read. The characters are unique, not only in the way they are written and developed, but in the way they are drawn. They're not idealized like so many comic characters- they are as flawed as we are. If you are not a fan of superhero comics THIS is the superhero comic for you. If you are a fan of superhero comics, you'll still find a lot to love in this quirky, offbeat title--especially, Mr. Gone.

Gone to Maxx, looking shocked:"You KiLLeD My HoSTaGe!" (shoots Maxx) "NeVeR Do THaT aGaiN."