[Suggestion] Political Discussion Subforum

Piano Black 11-03-2004 08:13 PM
I think it would be cool to have one. What does everyone else think?
X Prime 11-03-2004 08:18 PM
I believe it has been asked for and shot down.
The Fallen Phoenix 11-03-2004 08:20 PM
quote:
Originally posted by X Prime
I believe it has been asked for and shot down.


No, Wienberg never officially submitted the proposal...he drew it up a long while ago, then placed it on the backburner after Krang released the movie sub-forum and said there wouldn't be any more for a while following its creation.

Personally, I think it'd be a great idea...especially if it's broadened to include other "controversial" topics (such as religion and perhaps even philosophy).

The only problem with such a sub-forum would be its volatility, of course...still, I would love to see it happen, provided we can actually have some intelligent discussion (which I think is to be expected from the community we have, anyhow).
Dude Love 11-03-2004 08:22 PM
Wow! I never thought I'd have support for this idea.

Several months ago, I was typing up a proposal of a Political Sub-Forum. This sub-forum, however, would be special. 1. It would not only cover politics, but rather all the dicey topics (religion, for example) and philosophical topics. It would be a place where you could find a good, intellectual discussion (rather than sorting through Quizzes and the like). Additionally, it would actually be a deterent to arguments, because it would have been different from the rest of Paradigm:
  1. There would be multiple moderators (The Fallen Phoenix has expressed interest, as I believe dawnstrider has recently.)
  2. There would be explicit rules against fighting. Anyone who insigts or participates in a personal argument on that sub-forum would be banned from posting in it (possibly punishable by a warning, if you post again).

These rules would act to prevent meltdowns in threads. Those are all the ones I can recall off the top of my head. I stopped writing the proposal long ago, after the Movie Sub-Forum was added and Krang expressed there would be no new Sub-Forums for a long while. However, I'd like to add that I do support this idea. I think it's really great, and would be a positive asset to our already wonderful community.


PS- Horray for a very well used 2,500th post. Please, don't comment on this unless you're also commenting on this idea, as I personally want to see some good discourse (since, I really like this idea).
X Prime 11-03-2004 08:24 PM
I could've sworn Krang said something about there not being enough political topics to warrant a forum... But I digress. I'll support one.
Piano Black 11-03-2004 08:45 PM
quote:
Several months ago, I was typing up a proposal of a Political Sub-Forum. This sub-forum, however, would be special. 1. It would not only cover politics, but rather all the dicey topics (religion, for example) and philosophical topics. It would be a place where you could find a good, intellectual discussion (rather than sorting through Quizzes and the like). Additionally, it would actually be a deterent to arguments, because it would have been different from the rest of Paradigm:
  1. There would be multiple moderators (The Fallen Phoenix has expressed interest, as I believe dawnstrider has recently.)
  2. There would be explicit rules against fighting. Anyone who insigts or participates in a personal argument on that sub-forum would be banned from posting in it (possibly punishable by a warning, if you post again).

These rules would act to prevent meltdowns in threads. Those are all the ones I can recall off the top of my head. I stopped writing the proposal long ago, after the Movie Sub-Forum was added and Krang expressed there would be no new Sub-Forums for a long while. However, I'd like to add that I do support this idea. I think it's really great, and would be a positive asset to our already wonderful community.


Wienberg has the right idea. Big Grin
Krang 11-03-2004 09:56 PM
It may work out if people can discuss the topics intelligently and without arguing. I'd like to hear some more opinions first before making a decision, though.
evanASF27 11-03-2004 10:17 PM
this would cause more harm than good. If people can't go 4 posts in the threads we have so far without starting something, what do you think will happen in a subsection?

I don't think the forum as a whole can handle it.
Ace of Spades 11-03-2004 10:49 PM
Well it would add some free space in the Speakesy.
evanASF27 11-03-2004 11:34 PM
not really. There aren't that many political threads. And besides, it would be just another subsection...one that would probably only see serious use every 4 years.
Hienrich Ele 11-03-2004 11:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by evanASF27
not really. There aren't that many political threads. And besides, it would be just another subsection...one that would probably only see serious use every 4 years.


Yeah, I do think they will dwindle now, since the election is over. Unless some controversial things happen, it will decline.

Though I am not agaisnt it. Whatever the people see fit.
The Fallen Phoenix 11-03-2004 11:50 PM
quote:
Originally posted by evanASF27
this would cause more harm than good. If people can't go 4 posts in the threads we have so far without starting something, what do you think will happen in a subsection?

I don't think the forum as a whole can handle it.


I have to disagree...a lot of message boards have a Political/Religion/Philosophy forum, and most are fairly successful...even on forums which, in my opinion, don't have member bases as mature and intelligent as this one (believe me, Paradigm's member base is a lot more mature and intelligent than those on most forums).

I think such a sub-forum would be just as successful here, given the intelligence of several of the members here. Granted, there is that threat (if it could be called such) of volatility, but I think if we make clear the ground rules (as Wienberg suggested), it shouldn't be all too bad. Furthermore, with the elections over, I think we'll find that America as a whole will become a lot less polarized, particularly on the surface.

As for it being used...I really do think it'd be best if the forum envelop more than just politics...some of the other "touchy" subjects like philosophy and religion (topics of the latter have been successful here in the past) can (and should) also be included, I think.

You'd be surprised...I think there's a lot of places such a sub-forum could go. I really think it'd have some pretty positive effects on Paradigm as a whole, and really increase the quality of intellectual discussions (which are already fairly high, of course, but with a dedicated sub-category these discussions would best be allowed to thrive).

If worse comes to worse and the idea does fail, the sub-category can always be dissolved, though I doubt it'd come to that.
Prons 11-04-2004 12:14 AM
I feel there would be a good place, I also think we could extend it to general Serious Discussion (Similar to the Serious Discussion and Debate on Anime nation)
Mr. Fortnight 11-04-2004 02:56 AM
I'm for it, even as just a serious discussion forum.

But, I think a few conditions should be added to insure lively, but civil debate.

1: You gotta have at least 250 posts here at PCF to participate.
2: If you get a warning from that forum, it also means you're locked out from that particular category untill the mod's/admin's discretion says otherwise.
3: If you have warnings from elsewhere in the forums, you cannot post their either untill your warning record clears.

I think that will keep things on the level and with forum regulations. If there must be hot-button discussion, this I think would be the way to handle it.
Avenir 11-04-2004 03:26 AM
I don't like the idea of an entire section dedicated to the discussion of politics, religion, etc., which are the number one causes of flame wars on message boards. It could easily cause problems. Ensign had some nice ideas on keeping it clean but, unless Krang says otherwise, it sounds kind of complicated for just one section. Therefore, I hereby vote "No."
Wingnut 11-04-2004 03:31 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Ensign Minneapolis
I'm for it, even as just a serious discussion forum.

But, I think a few conditions should be added to insure lively, but civil debate.

1: You gotta have at least 250 posts here at PCF to participate.
2: If you get a warning from that forum, it also means you're locked out from that particular category untill the mod's/admin's discretion says otherwise.
3: If you have warnings from elsewhere in the forums, you cannot post their either untill your warning record clears.

I think that will keep things on the level and with forum regulations. If there must be hot-button discussion, this I think would be the way to handle it.

I dissagree with your #3 as how a person got a warning could have nothing to do with posting a message. (Rare, but it has happened).
I say give it a test run and see what happens. If it crashed then remove it. I say yes for now.
Mr. Fortnight 11-04-2004 03:38 AM
I put that in because it is a failsafe. Failsafes are complicated.

In a hot situation like political, religous, or other related topics, such care has to be taken to be almost ruthless in function. I've read many articles on dealing with things like this, and have seen some forums go "NO HOT-BUTTON TOPICS OR BANHAMMER".

At least in the PCF there is a place for it now, and I think it needs it's own, tightly regulated forum.

That's the only way I'd approve of it.
Dude Love 11-04-2004 07:13 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Avenir
I don't like the idea of an entire section dedicated to the discussion of politics, religion, etc., which are the number one causes of flame wars on message boards. It could easily cause problems. Ensign had some nice ideas on keeping it clean but, unless Krang says otherwise, it sounds kind of complicated for just one section. Therefore, I hereby vote "No."


I'd ask you to reconsider, based on the idea that there can be intelligent discussion, if the law is laid down early. If any members who wish to be jerks attempt to being flame wars, they'll get shot down by the other members and have a moderator all over them.

To further my argument, just look to FP's post. Essentially, since the Presidential Election ended so quickly and without controvesy, it's unlikely that forum members will continue to be so polarized. Many people have expressed their willingness to compromise in Ensign's Olive Branch thread, for example.

Just my further opinions on the matter. Smile
dawnstrider 11-04-2004 03:09 PM
Okay, I guess that I have been the "silent-silent" partner in these proceedings - mostly because FP and Wienberg have done such an excellent job of explaining the points in favor as stands Smile . But I throw in my favor of the motion.

I was a bit hesitant and skeptical at first to vote in favor of a whole sub-forum dedicated to the idea (though I was in favor of "bringing back the movement", if you will Tongue ) for many of the reasons stated. But looking at the arguments for and against, I think that: 1) a little effort could make the subforum work, and 2) the benefits in the long run can out way the slight difficulties that may come our way.

Concern about potential volatility could be stamped out early if, as Wienberg stated, strict policy if presented up front and in an unambiguous manner. For instance, if FP or I see any deviations into personal attacks, or flame wars, or the ghetto-like aggrandizing "Don't push me!!!!" threats, then the post(s) could get deleted immediately. No questions asked; no verbal warnings. I think that I mentioned before in the "bring back the Picture thread" topic that I don't believe in applying special stipulations to any one area of the forums - misdistribution of resources and the like - but what I had just stated does not add anything - it just reinforces what is already there. And I think, as FP said, most of the members here are mature enough, and those that are....well, not, at least have the sense to know that a bit of momentary good behavior is worth the price of being allowed to express your opinions on important secular or metaphysical matters that they might not have the opportunity to otherwise.

In the long run, it will be beneficial, since web forums are designed for people to get together online and talk to about whatever they wish within legal grounds. A place dedicated to intellectual discussions could open up many people who have previously been quiet due to various concerns or the other, such as being attacked. This, in turn, could help contribute to an overall sense of community here.

But, that's sort of a nebulous goal as stands, so I digress...

Either way, I say as long as it doesn't put Krang and Shredder out with site costs and bandwidth issues, then we should give it a try. And besides, if it doesn't fly, it'll get cut. *shrugs* Simple as that. I will agree, however, that it might be best to wait until we get our staff up in numbers a bit first, since adding an extra subforum might spread the Mods a bit thin.
Those are my two cents.

Peace Cool .
Wingnut 11-04-2004 03:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by dawnstrider
I will agree, however, that it might be best to wait until we get our staff up in numbers a bit first, since adding an extra subforum might spread the Mods a bit thin.
Those are my two cents.

Peace Cool .

In that case I volenteer my services to cover the additional load in the mod area.