Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith *warning, may contain spoilers*

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Originally posted by StevieV019 One quick thing about the movies that did kinda get me a little was this: Luke was born first...I always though Leia was born first. Also, Luke did "see" Padme for an instant, and yet, he doesnt have a recollection of her as Leia does (through their conversation on Endor in Return of the Jedi)...whats up with that?

Exactly! I don't know why but these things sort of bother me. Then again perhaps Bail Organa told Leia of her true mother, in any event...it still irks me, but a lot of things have been irking me lately ( I blame it on the planetary T-Square )

Changing topics...

I wonder if it might be fun to watch a Star Wars anime. I LOVED the manga! Hisao Tamaki was brilliant in giving the characters his own personal style but he also stayed faithful to the series.

As for the possibility that Plagueis created Anakin, we are never told when Plagueis lived, nor that he was Palpatines' master, so its impossible to tell whether he did or not. Besides, the series always implies that Anakin was the Chosen One and created by the Force itself.

As for not falling to the dark side because of his rejection by the Jedi establishment or Obi-wan's criticism, I'm pretty certain he did. After all, he had been feeling negative feelings about this since Episode II. The whole Padme-death thing was simply the straw that broke the camel's back, in my opinion.

As an aside, has it occurred to anyone else that perhaps Palpatine was causing Anakin's dreams in order to turn him? Baseless speculation, yes, but an interesting thought.

Gah! So many theories!*trips over one*

On Anakin:
The Plagueis thing makes sense, and even more if again you look towards the prophecy thing. Yoda says one line in the movie that was probably the Gordon Rosewater Tomato speech of the series.

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"A prophecy misunderstood, perhaps"

The proper prophecy could have been "created through the force". And as for the whole balance issue, he didnt do it did he? Luke did. But as we all know...

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Luke, I am your father.

So yes, Anakin was probably created by Plagueis. It never actually said the guy was evil right?

On the Luke/Leia/Padme knowing about each other thing:

Bah.

On the dream influencing thing:
I doubt it was. Anakin was just that intune with it. And maybe Lucas copied it from the Matrix seeing as Neo experienced something similar.

As a bit of a rule, sith tend to be... not so nice. Just thought I'd throw that in there.

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Originally posted by TanookiJoe As for the possibility that Plagueis created Anakin, we are never told when Plagueis lived, nor that he was Palpatines' master, so its impossible to tell whether he did or not. Besides, the series always implies that Anakin was the Chosen One and created by the Force itself.

It's definite that the Force itself created Anakin. If it had been Darth Plagueis, why didn't Palpatine seek him out? As I said earlier, Palpatine hoped to take over the Republic in Episode I but was defeated. His interest in Anakin developed over the years.

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Originally posted by TanookiJoe As an aside, has it occurred to anyone else that perhaps Palpatine was causing Anakin's dreams in order to turn him? Baseless speculation, yes, but an interesting thought.

Actually, I was thinking it was Anakin himself that was causing the dreams. In Episode I, Qui-Gon says that Jedi can see things before they happen, causing their quick reflexes. Perhaps as the Chosen One, Anakin developed the ability to see the future itself. Because he wasn't following the Jedi doctrine of solitude, his fear of losing Padme is creating the future that will lead to her death.

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Originally posted by D-Boy quote: "A prophecy misunderstood, perhaps" The proper prophecy could have been "created through the force". And as for the whole balance issue, he didnt do it did he? Luke did.

As for the misunderstood prophecy, it makes sense when you think of a true balance of the two sides of the Force. At the end of Ep III there are only two Sith (Darth Vader and Darth Sidious) and two Jedi (Yoda and Obi-wan) in the universe. The Force is now balanced.

I was reading Maddox's review of RoTS, it's pretty interesting.

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Originally posted by Ano Hito I was reading Maddox's review of RoTS, it's pretty interesting.

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It just so happens that this "children's movie" has a scene where a guy gets his hands chopped off, a graphic decapitation, the wanton slaughter of children (the highlight of any movie), and the coolest scene in any space action movie starring Ewan McGregor: Anakin getting his legs chopped off as his stumps catch fire while his face melts. By the way, if you haven't seen this movie yet, don't read the previous sentence.

I laughed my ass off to that (and in the theaters, as well).

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Originally posted by Lt. Sanji quote: Originally posted by D-Boy quote: "A prophecy misunderstood, perhaps" The proper prophecy could have been "created through the force". And as for the whole balance issue, he didnt do it did he? Luke did. As for the misunderstood prophecy, it makes sense when you think of a true balance of the two sides of the Force. At the end of Ep III there are only two Sith (Darth Vader and Darth Sidious) and two Jedi (Yoda and Obi-wan) in the universe. The Force is now balanced.

I've been doing a lot of thinking about the prophecy, and though that was what initially came to mind (the Force balanced in that there were two Jedi and two Sith remaining), I have ultimately decided on accepting the viewpoint of a friend of mine: that, in order to bring balance to the Force, the Sith needed to be exterminated.

Jedi doctrine dictates that the Jedi are the servants to the Force, whereas the Sith twist the Force to suit their own, selfish needs. In order to bring balance (or, more appropriately, harmony) to the Force, therefore, these cancers needed to be annihilated.

Ultimately, Anakin does fulfill the Prophecy and not Luke, because it is Anakin who kills Palpatine. Was it because of Luke? Absolutely, but it was Anakin who actually carried out the deed.

Admittedly, I still have some problems, even with that interpretation of the Prophecy. Just because there are no Sith left, for example, does not necessarily mean they cannot be revived, because the Dark Side of the Force still exists. Force users will still be tempted, and Force users may very well fall to the Dark Side. Of course, this does not necessarily mean these fallen Force users will necessarily become Sith and follow Sith doctrine...

It is tricky any way one looks at it, since it is really hard to view the Force as being simply two parts: Jedi/Light Side, Sith/Dark Side. It simply does not work, as Obi-Wan himself said: seeing in absolutes is a Sith quality. That is not the "proper" way of viewing the Force (or the world, for that matter), because there will always be shades of grey.

...I guess this brings me right back where I started: I guess I simply do not know how exactly to interpret the Prophecy. Alas...

As for Plagueis or Palpatine creating Anakin, I do not buy it. For one, there is no way of knowing when Plagueis existed: I am under the impression that he predates Shmi, Anakin's mother. I suppose that is possibly because I personally think Palpatine is no youngling himself; I was always under the impression he was several decades (perhaps even over a century) old in Return of the Jedi. We just are not given enough information to make an adequate timeline (without going into the EU, that is, but that is not really canon)...the only real certainy (and even that is shaky) is that Plagueis was Palpatine's master. That seems to be the common consensus, at least.

Even if one accepts Plagueis as the creator of Anakin, it begs question: why would Plaguis do something like that? Why choose Shmi? Wouldn't Shmi have some recollection of an odd encounter? Then again, these are all assumptions; Vader has used Force Choke across great distances (from the Super Star Destroyer to a Star Destroyer, for example), so it stands to reason some Force powers can actually be used from rather long range. If Plagueis was also that adept in the ways of the Force, it is possible he found some way to wipe Shmi's memory with the Force. One could make the argument he predicted Anakin through the Force, hence his creation, but...

Palpatine does take interest in Anakin at the end of TPM, so that is something to keep in mind. Of course, this interest may just be because Palpatine is interested to see how his abilities develop after his victory against the Trade Federation fleet...

Personally, I reject the presumption that Plagueis or Palpatine created Anakin. There are far too many variables and far too much the viewer does not know that is required to make a reasonable guess; at this point, everything is pure conjecture. That is not necessarily a bad thing, though, since it is always fun to read up on different theories and points of view...

Just an aside... Several people have mentioned that the Extended Universe is not canonical. Everything in the Extended Universe is approved by Lucas in order to be published. How much more does something need to be canonical? Nothing I've ever seen gives much support to the view that EU isn't intended to be canon.

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Originally posted by TanookiJoe Just an aside... Several people have mentioned that the Extended Universe is not canonical. Everything in the Extended Universe is approved by Lucas in order to be published. How much more does something need to be canonical? Nothing I've ever seen gives much support to the view that EU isn't intended to be canon.

Did Lucas write any of the EU? No...Lucas may have approved the ideas and stories, however, I look at it simply as him approving so it doesnt go against what his ideas are/were. For instance, a novel or book in the Star Wars series suddenly having Obi-Wan alive and doing amazing things wouldnt make sense. Obviously, Lucas wouldnt approve it because it doesnt coincide with his story and his ideas.

Basically, the films, and everything George Lucas has done with Star Wars IS canon...the EU, well, thats creativity from other writers, they arent the original source. Anything written in the EU can be reversed or contradicted by Lucas...since he's the originator. And if Lucas did do that, who do you think would be discredited, Lucas or the writer?? I believe the answer would be the writer....(not that it would happen, but still...)

Again, based on what I read in Rolling Stone, Darth Plagueis or Darth Sidious creating Anakin through the force is strictly speculation left up to the fans...as stated by George Lucas. I think Plagueis was Sidious' master (I think rather obviously), and Plagueis' dark arts skill to preserve life I think have been passed onto Sidious. Sidious isnt young...I think he's rather old and has been exercising his dark side talents to keep his life preserved for so long, as mentioned in his Darth Plagueis story.

On a side note....I think the best quote in the whole movie belongs to Padme:

"The death of democracy, greeted with thunderous applause" (sic)

Simply perfect for the situation...

I didn't think that Anakin joined the Sith just because of Padme.

I thought it was mostly because he had just, without thinking, helped Palpatine kill one of the Jedi elders. He either could join Palpatine in that moment or be a traitor. Then once he gave himself to the Dark Side, it corrupted his mind until from his point of view the Jedi were evil.

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Originally posted by GAT-X105 I didn't think that Anakin joined the Sith just because of Padme. I thought it was mostly because he had just, without thinking, helped Palpatine kill one of the Jedi elders. He either could join Palpatine in that moment or be a traitor. Then once he gave himself to the Dark Side, it corrupted his mind until from his point of view the Jedi were evil.

Anakin's primary reason for joining the Sith was so he could learn the powers that would save Padme. The secondary reason was the preservation of the Republic, which of course is restructured as the First Galactic Empire.

Remember that Palpatine tells Anakin about his fears that the Jedi are planning to seize control of the Republic. Palpatine was very popular with the galaxies of the Republic, whereas the Jedi were secretive and perhaps even feared by these galaxies. The Jedi were also excluding Anakin and publically doubting his destiny.

Anakin turned Palpatine in, but when he follows Mace Windu to see that the arrest has gone smoothly, he finds the Jedi Master standing over the injured Chancellor. It looks like Palpatine was right all along! Anakin only got involved so Palpatine would teach him how the Dark Side would save Padme. Palpatine instructs his new apprentice that the Jedi in the temple must be destroyed before they kill them and seize power. After the Jedi and Seperatists are eliminated, he'll teach Anakin how to save Padme.

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Originally posted by Mr. Peabody quote: Originally posted by GAT-X105 I didn't think that Anakin joined the Sith just because of Padme. I thought it was mostly because he had just, without thinking, helped Palpatine kill one of the Jedi elders. He either could join Palpatine in that moment or be a traitor. Then once he gave himself to the Dark Side, it corrupted his mind until from his point of view the Jedi were evil. Anakin's primary reason for joining the Sith was so he could learn the powers that would save Padme. The secondary reason was the preservation of the Republic, which of course is restructured as the First Galactic Empire. Remember that Palpatine tells Anakin about his fears that the Jedi are planning to seize control of the Republic. Palpatine was very popular with the galaxies of the Republic, whereas the Jedi were secretive and perhaps even feared by these galaxies. The Jedi were also excluding Anakin and publically doubting his destiny. Anakin turned Palpatine in, but when he follows Mace Windu to see that the arrest has gone smoothly, he finds the Jedi Master standing over the injured Chancellor. It looks like Palpatine was right all along! Anakin only got involved so Palpatine would teach him how the Dark Side would save Padme. Palpatine instructs his new apprentice that the Jedi in the temple must be destroyed before they kill them and seize power. After the Jedi and Seperatists are eliminated, he'll teach Anakin how to save Padme.

Si, senor...thats why I was a little disappointed...I wish Anakin didnt have to deal with Padme and then became Darth Vader for the other reasons listed above.

Basically, Anakin was manipulated by Palpatine to doubt his existence within the Jedi order, and whether the Jedi were truly righteous. That, coupled with his fear of losing Padme (re: abandonment) led him to become Palpatine's apprentice, so he could learn the dark side ways and save Padme, so he never would be alone. Unfortunately, it was his fear of losing Padme that really persuaded him to want to learn Palpatine's dark force powers. I wouldve preferred Anakin just getting fed up with the Jedi, the war, and the corrupt politicians...and being manipulated that way by Palpatine rather than preying on his love for Padme and fear of losing her. But oh well...

DVD comes out tuesday, as well as Battlefront II... There goes my birthday money ...

I'm not buying any of the prequels.

In retrospect they all sucked immensely.

I haven't commited myself to buying Episode III yet. For about a month after I saw I couldn't wait for the DVD then 'Charlie and the Chocolate Factory' came around and I up and spent -no kidding here- $200 on 'Charlie' merchandise. I still don't know how I did that. Three action figures, a tin lunchbox, collectible tins, sunglasses, tv room goggles, three shirts, a set of movie cards; it adds up. Anywho, all that frantic spending kinda took the wind out of my sails for beating on my bank account.

I'm not at all what you'd call of fan of Star Wars but I liked the prequels more than the original trilogy. This last episode is my favorite of the whole series. I'm a character person and episode three was just a two hour Anakin character study, it was really fun to watch. I'm amazed looking back at the original trilogy how much Lucas already knew about his characters. Aside from Vader being subservent to that general in the first movie Anakin Skywalker flows beautifully from Episode IX to Episode III. 'Sith' turned Anakin/Vader to one of my favorite characters of cinema.

Thinking about it now I had a lot of fun figuring out Anakin for myself, I might try to buy it. I don't know. Maybe Wal Mart will have another deal.


muchlove
-Dork

I have mine on Pre-Order, and will be getting it Tomorrow.

I will be getting mine today