Alan Gabriel's Role, and Dorothy

I've seen a lot of debate about the purpose of Alan Gabriel in season two. Some people seem to think he's a waste of time, a Schwarzwald wannabe. Others like him but still see little point to his existance in the show. I belonged to the second category until something new occured to me recently . . .

At first, I assumed Gabriel was inserted just to give Rosewater someone to interact with since he fired Angel, the person with whom he shared his musings previously, and since he has been an increasingly important character as season two rolls on. I think this may still be a somewhat vaild point, but I thought of a new, better reason for his presence in the show . . .

Alan Gabriel is the anti-Dorothy . . . the complete reverse of Dorothy in almost every way. He began life as a human, but over time he regressed more and more into a malevolent machine. When we finally meet him he is utterly devoid of any human characteristics . . . empathy, loyalty, affection . . .

Dorothy, on the other hand, began as a machine (albeit an incredibly well built one), but it seems to me that she becomes more and more human with every new episode. Look at her dismissing the dieing Soldano as a madman in the first act, and consider how far she has come during the series.

Whenever these two are together, they are at each other's throats(well Gabriel is at Dorothy's throat). Dorothy is a "doll" and Gabriel is a "boogeyman" who desires to break her so badly that he feels the urge to do something obscene with his tongue and his gun .

Why bring all this up? Because I see lots of people in the various Dorothy+Roger romance threads saying that they could never love Dorothy simply because she's an android. Now, I'm not trying to start a fight with those people, but it seems to me that one of the major questions Big O has raised (at least for me) is "what does it mean to be human?" Can Dorothy never be the equal of a human simply because she began life as a machine? What about Gabriel? He was once a human, but I argue that by the time we see him in the show, he has lost every shred of any humanity he once possessed. And if Gabriel can fall from humanity, can't Dorothy aspire to it?

Personally, I think that if you can't distinguish an android from a human, than there is indeed no difference. We saw in the very beginning that Roger easily mistook Dorothy for human, and she's become even more convincing since then.

Any thoughts?

Schwarzwald says that "he posseses the foolishness of both man and machine." While the line is kinda ambigious, it take it as meaning that Alan has the most terrible aspects of each, with none of the good of either: he has in him both the sadistic, savage impulses of the most basic human nature as well as the cold, unfeeling, ruthlessness of a machine. In a way, he's supposed to represent the worst of both worlds, whereas Dorothy- a 'pure-hearted' machine with human memories and emotions, is supposed to represent the best.

MetalGoldKnight:

Okay, I'll definitely buy that.

Dorothy certainly retains her excellent mechanical abilities . . . speed, strength, flashlight built into her head . . . but "good" human characteristics soon develop alongside these properties.

I'd said that Gabriel lost all emotions like loyalty and empathy. You correctly point out that those are only "good" emotions. He has retained sadistic pleasure, unchecked ambition, and every thing else that we consider to be "bad". Take those rotten characteristics, combine them with a mechanical body, and you have one evil badass with the worst of both worlds. I guess Big Duo knew exactly what to do with him though . . . heh . . .

Dorothy's still human enough to me though. Hell, I'd take her in a heartbeat .

Good point!

Can an Android be human?

Could you love an Android?

It is a matter of your own beliefs. Does Dorothy have a soul? Can she be one of us? This are questions thrown to us by Big O. Yes, what does it mean to be human anyway? is it the complex feelings and intelectual or simply you must require to be fleshy.
Your comparison of Alan Gabriel and Dorothy is superb, both show how can someone become from human to machine and maybe from machine to human.

Dorothy gave up on herself in "Twisted Memories" maybe realizing that it would be impossible for her to become human, and yet when she has this human emotions, she feels she's betraying her machine counterpart.

But really, what makes you human?

Rouge:

True, it is a matter of beliefs. I do respect the others' opions completely . . . I didn't really expect to convince the "other camp" that I'm right and they're wrong. Instead, I just wanted to articulate the case for Dorothy as a first class human.

I think she can be. Others think she can't. Whatever. We carry on . . .

quote:

Originally posted by Black Phoenix Personally, I think that if you can't distinguish an android from a human, than there is indeed no difference. We saw in the very beginning that Roger easily mistook Dorothy for human, and she's become even more convincing since then.

I tend to agree with you here.

If the difference is indistinguishable, then for all practical purposes, there is no difference.

Someone ought to tell Dorothy that, though. And Roger.

Yeah they both need to get a clue. Well, they seemed to be coming to terms with it . . . until Dorothy was gutted . . .

quote:

Originally posted by Black Phoenix Yeah they both need to get a clue. Well, they seemed to be coming to terms with it . . . until Dorothy was gutted . . .

True, I mean Roger seemed to be awfully geting attached to Dorothy that he almost seemed to forget that she was an android.

The worst of both worlds? I like that assessment. Alan was foolhardy to the bitter end, his vices proved his undoing.

Dorothy, the little girl trapped within the body of a machine. To the viewers, she is as human as she wants to be and the only person oblivious to this is Roger Smith.

I think that they would have hooked up if Roger would only forgive her for her only flaw: being a machine. He could never see beyond her mechanic features to the soul that lay inside her body and until he saw the risk in losing her, he finally reached out to that soul in the machine.

Negotiation result: Justice is blind, so is the assessment of an Negotiatior.

I guess Roger too has been struggling with the whole "what does it mean to be human?" question. Before now, he seems to have viewed Dorothy as something less than human . . . especially at the beginning when he was constantly infuriated by her "attempts" to mimic humans. It seems like he's finaly overcome that hurdle . . . but too late . . . naturally . . .

Though in the beginning, Dorothy wasn't anywhere near being like a human (in terms of her personality) so I can't fault Roger *too* much for looking down on her (though he really should have kept his mouth shut about the issue . . . he was usually quite a jerk). I guess what happens is that Dorothy evolves slowly, and it takes Roger a while to notice and adapt himself to her evolution. After all, he must have had a hard time thinking of her as anything but an android when her being "artificial" caused him so much professional embarrassment in the first several episodes.

quote:

Originally posted by Black Phoenix After all, he must have had a hard time thinking of her as anything but an android when her being "artificial" caused him so much professional embarrassment in the first several episodes.

A couple of quick thoughts on this.

According the the creator interview on the dvd's, there was no plot for the first 3 or 4 episodes, so they may have started in that direction but then realized it would get stale pretty quick.

The other thing is simple human nature.

Have you ever noticed how some people act when they are dealing with something new that disquiets them? They go through a process where they gripe about everything as they get used to the change.

Let me give you a real-life example:

A friend of mine's parents got a new couch. Even though the old couch was tattered and needed replacement, the mom had mixed feelings about it. She was fond of the old one.

At first, she sat in the chair instead of the couch. She said things like "it looks nice, but I don't know if it will wear well". After a few weeks, she got more accustomed to it, and would sit down on it to watch TV. Then the complaints were "this isn't as comfortable as the other couch" or "The seat is lower and it's hard to get out of."

Fast forward another few weeks. She naps on it finally. It's been around long enough that she doesn't feel like she's seeing a stranger every time she walks into the room. Now she says "We got a great deal on this couch...."

It sounds funny, but I bet every person on this board knows at least one person who deals with things this way, it's not uncommon.

So, (while I grant you that it may be a fanwank), Roger's behavoir with Dorothy might be exactly that sort of thing, and the more he gets used to her, the more willing he is to just let her be who she is.

Just something to think about

I definitely agree with this:

"Dorothy, on the other hand, began as a machine (albeit an incredibly well built one), but it seems to me that she becomes more and more human with every new episode"

and...

"Alan Gabriel is the anti-Dorothy . . . the complete reverse of Dorothy in almost every way. He began life as a human, but over time he regressed more and more into a malevolent machine. When we finally meet him he is utterly devoid of any human characteristics . . . empathy, loyalty, affection . . ."

I think thats right on the money and it makes perfect sense...Ive seen some spoiler clips and so forth, and Dorothy is becoming more and more human...with every episode...

Hey Zola, I know what you're talking about. I'm sure all of us are the same way at least a little bit. It's just so easy to notice how childish Roger's initial treatment of Dorothy seems when we're observing everything from an outside perspective. It's much harder to notice as much when we ourselves are the ones being childish . . . Too bad I never remember that until *after* I've been insensitive to somebody . . .

I still want to hit Roger over the head every time he yells "Stop mimicing us!"

I wonder if she had developed enough of an emotional base to be hurt by all those early quips or if she was impervious and/or oblivious to them. She rarely shows any reaction to anything so it's difficult to tell.

I never bothered to look at the creator interviews . . . forgot they were there . . . Maybe I should dig them up and have a look sometime . . .

. . . And how exactly would an Android go about devoping human feelings I wonder? It's certainly not as simple as the android thinking "I should understand feelings so I can communicate better with these humans . . ." Somewhere (Negotiations with the Dead, I think), somebody points out that emotions are extremely rare in androids, and it's easy to see why.

With Alan Gabriel, it was much easier for him to discard much of his humanity than it was for Dorothy to develop hers. His ambitions devoured most of his original self . . . It's rather fitting that he was the one who ended up getting devoured by Duo in the end. Yummy! Didn't like the taste of the hat much though . . .

(Awww, somebody consolidated my double posts. How sweet! No really, thank you . . . knocked 1 off my postcount though, not that I care all that much . . .)

*gets his gun* who's double posting without using the edit button? Where'd he go??

(just kidding)

Ive noticed, primarily in the movements of Dorothy that she really has become more and more human...her hair suddenly blows in the wind, and she's starting to give subtle movements and expressions with her mouth...those stand out primarily to me, as well as her thoughts and emotions...

Yeah, good point . . . like when she smiled after Roger saved her from Gabriel. Well, it was barely a smile, but it was so different, so "new", that I noticed it immediately.

i wonder where Dorothy ranks among the robots who have become self-aware

Although i wonder what a robot would do if it became self aware, i imagine that it would be horribly disressed, mainly because the world sees it nothing more than a tool and never something to be considered "human",and how would a robot deal with death in a robot sense. To be shut down or dissassembled...

man thats not a nice way to live...

i wonder if Dorothy would ever want to have children?

Roscoe Fitzgerald (I think that's his name) from Negotiations with the Dead is certainly the most self-aware, most human-like android we've seen. He had a loving human wife, and nobody else had a clue that he was a machine until he deliberately showed them. Well, Dorothy had a clue . . .

Dorothy is way up there in terms of sophistication though. Well, what other androids have we been introduced to? There's Instro, Freddie, that junkyard android . . . all of them seemed to have human-like qualities at least a little bit . . .

Instro, for example, has a very well developed understanding of artistic expression . . . in his episode he was compared directly against Dorothy who had not acquired such an understanding by that point. Now, I would have dismissed Instro's musicality as something that was programmed into him and not something he understood intuitively, but even when he lost his precicely built hands, he started teaching himself to play anew . . . proof that he understands music on more than just a mechanical level since he can reproduce his music even without the aid of his specialized parts . . .

Even Freddie shows a little personality . . . He praises Dorothy for being a work of art. Kind of a strange compliment, but would a pure machine ever think to pass on an opinion like that? I can't see a simple robot ever understanding relative human measures such as beauty or artistry. It would take some level of evolution to be able to think in those imprecise terms. Freddie also seems to have a strong desire to catch the android assassin . . . beyond any orders that might have been given to him. Maybe it's just me, but it seemed like Freddie took the assassin case personally. (I wish I had recorded all the new ones so I could rewatch them though . . .)

Interesting to think about . . .

quote:

Originally posted by C.R Foxhound i wonder if Dorothy would ever want to have children?

If she did she might be able to create children like Chitose Hibya in 'Chobits' She wasn't able to have children but her husband cared enough about her to make her children so she could be happy, so Roger (if they ever got together) might be able to ask Norman to make Dorothy children iif she wanted them. Just a thought

lets not get into the "Mechanics" of Orga-Mecha love....

quote:

Originally posted by zopwx2 lets not get into the "Mechanics" of Orga-Mecha love....

I actually am planning a little post about androids and gender, but I am still working on the draft because I want to AVOID mechanics completely, LOL