Best Big-O Theory I've heard--NEW (Focus on Gordon; incredible)

I recently got another friend of mine into Big-O who has studied Philosophy and he's just finished the second Season on DVD. He came up with a "big picture" concept and when I ran with it with what notes I've been taking myself, BIG-O made more sense then ever. I feel closer to Schwazwald's truth now.

Here it is--and it's kinda complex, so read through it all. We've been so focused on Angel that Gordon slipped out from under our noses. He knows Paradigm's inner workings--he knew how to get to B666 from seemingly out of nowhere and much more. He's not an insignificant feeble old man, he's fooling us. In fact, he's the most important character. The story of BIG-O is his challenge in a game of chess so to speak with "The Creator". Gordon is the only member of Paradigm City who's truly real. He's the first glitch in Paradigm's "systems".

See there was an EVENT that was the war that left everything demolished. Then the domed city was built by Gordon. That is the starting point for each RESET now. My friend explained it to me like this: Paradigm's sort of like a computer. The first save point was a ruined Paradigm with the dome's built. Therefore, whenever you RESET, the destruction still remains because that was the last point of reference to restart with.

This runs off the "Evil Genius" theory of Philosophy that there is a quote quote "Evil Genius" who's all powerful and toying with everyone's lives. Now in the case of BIG-O, there is "The Creator". We have no idea if its a series of runaway machines like HAL in 2001, and evil god, an alien, or the Devil controlling Paradigm City's fate. We have no idea of the scale either given that the massive BIG-O is but a toy compared to the gears and steel beams. Therefore, the people and machines are chess pieces of sorts in something like a computer reality.

The thing is though, each time the world is RESET, it's becoming harder for the "Evil Genius" to control (hense Daustan sees hismelf as a kid). Gordon's efforts with the Tomatos was to keep his memories with each RESET so he could continue his quest against "The Creator". However, he's growing older as evident by the picture Roger and him share. He can't continue on the fight much longer and hasn't developed the skills to change the game of Paradigm. As a result, he's passed the torch onto ANGEL. That's why he tells her she can do what she wishes with the memories he has collected in his quest. But he hopes she'll carry on for him. He developed his son Alex to do just that but Alex took the wrong path. He understood his father's role to some extent and wanted to push ahead and change the rules of Paradigm by force. He even killed off all those who were involved with starting ths city who evidently, like Fitzgerald, had important memories as well sicne they were with Gordon Rosewater...finally attempting to do-in his father himself).

Now he's lost his title of Rosewater's successor, and Angel has been given the name Rosewater to continue his work to try and effect the future. He tells Roger it's up to him because Roger still has to negotiate with Angel to make sure she doesn't give up Gordon Rosewater's efforts. In the end he believes together, and probably with Dorothy, they can change the future. Roger especailly has an important role in keeping order and possibly being the final tool Gordon needed to make the change (I'll touch on that in a moment).

One note my friend made was about the Union. It was real, people out in the desert and such. And yet, it wasn't real because the people in the Union were not real people.

Now, once he gave me this info, everything started making sense. Roger, as I've stated before, has been a character in the city of Paradigm that has been built up over the RESETs. Boy, bum, cop, military, etc to Dominus finally (Angel has also seemingly been built up in a similar way looking at Roger the Wanderer--note how they always talk about how they're two of a kind). Roger made the final jump by being tested. Schwarzwald and many other tasks were tests for Roger to realize his potential. And Gordon's used Big Ear as a mouthpiece to guide Roger along.

Now with this Roger it's interesting. He's not the REAL Roger Smith--even he admits he doesn't know who he is or what role he's playing really. That's why Gordon is a bit suprised. This is where I jumped in to fill in some blanks. There is a REAL Roger, Angel, and Dorothy. Gordon is suprised to find out about Angel "Not being one of his Memories". He thought he was the only real person and that everyone else was a tomato with his (possibly the Senate's as well) memory fragments. Roger too, Gordon notes that he's not the same Roger he made a deal with. Notice Roger hasn't aged. We see the real Angel, Roger, and Dorothy through the final scene when Dorothy reintroduces the REAL Roger as the Negotiator to the REAL Angel--who's sub-role now has to take on the part of Gordon. But why is the REAL Roger so young still if Gordon met him when he was young and Gordon's aged? Well, remember how they always question what relation Androids and Humans had in the past, and in particular suprised us with Rosco Fitzgerald being a robot. Well, the REAL Roger Smith is a Robot. I'm not sure totally of Dorothy, but I have my suspicions...she might be the same Robot going between the REAL people and their doubles.

Dr. Waynwright. We don't see him too much, but he is strange and important. Remember how he has a copper-plated room? Well, here's what my Philosophy friend said to that. In the Evil Genius theory, if you knew you were being controlled, what would you do differently? Well, Waynewright tries to stop being manipulated. To do so he has the Copper-plated room. If say the RESET is induced by some sort of electrical/magnetic reaction, like when you accidentally erase a floppy disk, he built the walls so they'd absorb the erasure process and he'd keep his memories--or at least some of them.

I'd venture to say he partnered with Gordon to build the domes and try and set things right. He may be responsible for keeping the REAL Roger alive in robot form, hense the assembly line of Roger Robots we see in Roger's weird memories. Afterall, he created R. Dorothy who "Chose" Roger Smith. "The job is yours, Roger Smith." Dorothy is perhaps a capsule for holding memories to some extent, possibly carrying them back to the REAL individuals and guiding the false Rogers.--I haven't worked out Dorothy yet. Now, Beck killed Waynewright unknowingly by order of events planned by the enemy Creator. Ironic since Beck is probably related to Waynewright in some fashion as a lab assisstant given his machine knowledge.

Additionally with Beck, Alex Roseater appeared to be aware what sort of game his father was involved in to an extent given his remarks on "Paradigm as a Stage" to Roger and his talk with Beck: he knew Beck's techno-knowledge is nessessary in controlling Paradigm to some extent.

Schwarzwald found the truth, that it's a contest between Gordon and "The Creator" (and perhaps Gordon was an ousted Creator, who knows)--that's why its a comedy--he's only a player, a chess piece on the grid board. Schwarzwald does have one half of his face that looks mechanical. Could Schwarzwald be a robot as well like Big Ear, serving his role to test and move Roger Smith forward. In explains why once his role was dead he could come back as a glitch spirit sort of thing to talk to Alan. Perhaps he evolved a bit and Daustan too maybe from this latest group of events.

I beleive Alan Gabriel was put into the mix by Gordon's enemy to take care of Roger Smith and all those who were threatening to alter the game (Alex Rosewater, the Union, etc), but failed.

I noted Angel earlier. One thing that does confuse me but doesn't hurt the theory is where the REAL her came from if it can control BIG VENUS. Is she a rogue element glitch that escaped from "The Creator". Perhaps she was an older Negotiator who became a Dominus like Roger?-- and chose to combine, thus loosing control for a bit.
Whatever the case may be, this is definitely making more sense on every account.

The artificial cats and dogs talk in Season 1 was a forshadowing that everything is engineered.

Regardless, the presense of Angel, Roger, and Dorothy (who can stand in the rain without an umbrella and thus are free) are all unfortunate glitches to the Creator. Can they change the future, maybe BIG-O 3 will show us.

Thoughts? Additions?

I kinda got lost around where you said Roger was a robot...
Not trying to diss your theory, but I've always held the assembly line as well as the controll room to be metaphorical.

This is a very logical explanation! I liked it.

Too bad we'll never know for sure if this is true or not. That is, until they make a third season! This is a time it would be great to have one of the TBO writers or producers on hand to tell us about it... *grumble, grumble, grumble cakes*

A lot of that made good sense... and a lot of that didn't. I have to agree with what ACT has previously said about the assembly line and stuff...

Also, if angel is the 'good guy' here, then why the speech at the end... And why Big Venus?

[edit] Oh, wait, you said that last bit... Kind of... But still...

quote:

Gordon notes that he's not the same Roger he made a deal with.

Agreed, Gordon clarifies "I hired a Roger Smith."

quote:

He tells Roger it's up to him because Roger still has to negotiate with Angel to make sure she doesn't give up Gordon Rosewater's efforts.

But isn't its Rogers job to negotiate with the Creator, not Angel?

quote:

See there was an EVENT that was the war that left everything demolished. Then the domed city was built by Gordon.

That would mean that there were memories prior to 40 years ago.

quote:

...Gordon slipped out from under our noses. He knows Paradigm's inner workings--he knew how to get to B666 from seemingly out of nowhere and much more.

Agreed. He knew more about it than he was letting on. However, I think his knowledge extends to only the point that Paradigm City is a stage.

quote:

Gordon's efforts with the Tomatos was to keep his memories with each RESET so he could continue his quest against "The Creator". However, he's growing older as evident by the picture Roger and him share. He can't continue on the fight much longer and hasn't developed the skills to change the game of Paradigm. As a result, he's passed the torch onto ANGEL. That's why he tells her she can do what she wishes with the memories he has collected in his quest. But he hopes she'll carry on for him. He developed his son Alex to do just that but Alex took the wrong path. He understood his father's role to some extent and wanted to push ahead and change the rules of Paradigm by force. He even killed off all those who were involved with starting ths city who evidently, like Fitzgerald, had important memories as well sicne they were with Gordon Rosewater...finally attempting to do-in his father himself).

Very nice. It explains why Gordon tried such an experiment. Under the suposition that Gordon survives each reset i.e. does not go back in time, just looses his memories. If that is the case then it is possible the senators themselves have also survived multiple resets. We see Fitzgerald, "We androids age much slower than humans, but we get our share of achs and pains." Just how old is Fitzgerald? But, I don't quite believe in passing the torch to Angel.
Alex didn't have the senators assinated but those tomatos that the senators memories. They were assinated as soon as they realized that there are no memories prior to 40 years ago. I'm not quite sure about Alex being the sucessor to Gordon's quest. However, it does bring to light an interesting quote Alex made, "Hey dad, you were nothing more than a coward and a puppet and I am neither on of them and I am going to prove it." Why would Gordon be a coward?

quote:

Well, the REAL Roger Smith is a Robot

That would mean the fake Roger Smith is a human? Remember, we see Roger Smith bleed blood in Act 9.

quote:

This runs off the "Evil Genius" theory of Philosophy that there is a quote quote "Evil Genius" who's all powerful and toying with everyone's lives. Now in the case of BIG-O, there is "The Creator". ... We have no idea of the scale either given that the massive BIG-O is but a toy compared to the gears and steel beams. Therefore, the people and machines are chess pieces of sorts in something like a computer reality.

A sad reality for Paradigm City, but it is very nice. But maybe that is Roger's job, to negotiate the lives of the people of Paradigm City to not be a mear game with predetermined moves.

To clairify a point you made about "doubles", you're saying that the Real Roger, Dorothy and Angel exist in the same world as Paradigm City, they are just out of site, behind the scene watching from TV cameras?

This theory has simillar paralles to "Star Ocean-'Till the End Of Time" In this video game, a very technologicaly advace society developes an interactive video game world where people can come and go and mess around and the like. However, this program has been running for so long, that the inhabitants developed technology of thier own that allowed them to enter the REAL world. They entered the real world as a responce to a ultimate threat that was going to destroy their galaxy. In the real world, they learn that this ultimate force is accualy a computer virus designed to destroy the part of the programing "part of the virtural universe" that was infected with this new technology. A sort of saftey protocol in the event that the people of the world became too aware of themselves.

Now here are some fundamental questions I would like to ask you.

When Paradigm City RESET, does life continue from the endpoint of the last RESET or does even time RESET as well and everyone (execpt Gordon) revert to their cronological age relative to the time of the RESET (if that made any sence)?

If Gordon is the only real person, than who is everyone else and what is Gordon doing there in the first place?

If sequential RESETS are causing gliches, would sequential tomato harvest do the same? That always bothered me, "These tomatos are syntheticly made from the memories of real tomatos. If we repeat the process enough times they will become the real thing." Interjection --- Perhapes that quote from Gordon is an insight in to the acuall laws of reality that governs the world of Pardigm, being that sequential resets would create the real thing.

I think I am going to stop there for now. I'm sure I'll think of more things to talk about. I don't know about you, but I do enjoy talking about the complexities of Big O.

Wow. Thayt made so much sense it didn't hurt!

I don't think Gordon was literaly making memories with tomatoes. I think the process was being used for humans. Somewhere was the memories for humans. Possiblt the 'creator' can't controll real people. Roger, Schwarzwald and Angel are 3 of those 'real' people. They aren't the origionals, but they are real existing beings. Alex may also be a 'real' person, but has given controll to the creator (who then sent Alan, to keep an eye on things.) Alex would be an exelent device to contoll Paradigm with.

Anyway, that is my disorganized 5 cents. I will raise it to a quarter as soon as I feel like it.

quote:

Originally posted by Paradigm Dog Here it is--and it's kinda complex, so read through it all. We've been so focused on Angel that Gordon slipped out from under our noses. He knows Paradigm's inner workings--he knew how to get to B666 from seemingly out of nowhere and much more. He's not an insignificant feeble old man, he's fooling us. In fact, he's the most important character. The story of BIG-O is his challenge in a game of chess so to speak with "The Creator". Gordon is the only member of Paradigm City who's truly real. He's the first glitch in Paradigm's "systems".

You're mixing conclusions based on the evidence with ones that aren't. Gordon is definintely trying to game the system: he told us as much, and we saw as much. Whether he's a "glitch," let alone the FIRST glitch, is something you haven't demonstrated.

quote:

See there was an EVENT that was the war that left everything demolished.

What makes you think so?

quote:

Then the domed city was built by Gordon. That is the starting point for each RESET now. My friend explained it to me like this: Paradigm's sort of like a computer. The first save point was a ruined Paradigm with the dome's built. Therefore, whenever you RESET, the destruction still remains because that was the last point of reference to restart with.

What makes you think so? The domes seem to have been built after the Event. The dream sequence in ROGER THE WANDERER implies that the previous cycle featured a domeless, intact city.

quote:

This runs off the "Evil Genius" theory of Philosophy that there is a quote quote "Evil Genius" who's all powerful and toying with everyone's lives. Now in the case of BIG-O, there is "The Creator". We have no idea if its a series of runaway machines like HAL in 2001, and evil god, an alien, or the Devil controlling Paradigm City's fate. We have no idea of the scale either given that the massive BIG-O is but a toy compared to the gears and steel beams. Therefore, the people and machines are chess pieces of sorts in something like a computer reality.

The conclusion doesn't follow. Suppose there were a hollowed-out asteroid that had a civilization that had forgotten its origins. Would the presence of steel structural members and artificial lights mean that everything was being run by an Evil Genius? Would it mean that the people are chess pieces? Or could the whole thing be running on automatic?

It also doesn't follow that the Evil Genius, if he exists, is also the Creator. He could just as easily be someone who is slightly less clueless than everyone else, and has his hands on some of the controls.

quote:

The thing is though, each time the world is RESET, it's becoming harder for the "Evil Genius" to control (hense Daustan sees hismelf as a kid). Gordon's efforts with the Tomatos was to keep his memories with each RESET so he could continue his quest against "The Creator". However, he's growing older as evident by the picture Roger and him share. He can't continue on the fight much longer and hasn't developed the skills to change the game of Paradigm. As a result, he's passed the torch onto ANGEL. That's why he tells her she can do what she wishes with the memories he has collected in his quest. But he hopes she'll carry on for him.

Big Venus was only active for a few minutes. Gordon wasn't in very good shape, granted, but he could have managed five minutes in the control room. And it's not like we're ever shown Angel being given a period of apprenticeship by Gordon.

I think that Angel was the one who operated Big Venus and rang down the curtain on the current cycle because she's Big Venus' Dominus -- and the Director -- and always has been. Gordon told us repeatedly that he wasn't the real author of METROPOLIS.

quote:

... One note my friend made was about the Union. It was real, people out in the desert and such. And yet, it wasn't real because the people in the Union were not real people.

Ah, then Alex was right to call them scum and treat them with contempt!

quote:

... Now with this Roger it's interesting. He's not the REAL Roger Smith--even he admits he doesn't know who he is or what role he's playing really. That's why Gordon is a bit suprised. This is where I jumped in to fill in some blanks. There is a REAL Roger, Angel, and Dorothy. Gordon is suprised to find out about Angel "Not being one of his Memories". He thought he was the only real person and that everyone else was a tomato with his (possibly the Senate's as well) memory fragments. Roger too, Gordon notes that he's not the same Roger he made a deal with. Notice Roger hasn't aged. We see the real Angel, Roger, and Dorothy through the final scene when Dorothy reintroduces the REAL Roger as the Negotiator to the REAL Angel--who's sub-role now has to take on the part of Gordon. But why is the REAL Roger so young still if Gordon met him when he was young and Gordon's aged? Well, remember how they always question what relation Androids and Humans had in the past, and in particular suprised us with Rosco Fitzgerald being a robot. Well, the REAL Roger Smith is a Robot. I'm not sure totally of Dorothy, but I have my suspicions...she might be the same Robot going between the REAL people and their doubles.

Roger "hasn't aged" in the same sense that Dan Dastun "hasn't aged" -- that is, he's still seven years old when he's watching WINTER NIGHT PHANTOM with little Sybil Rowan.

Dragging in an android Roger doesn't really work, since you can't claim that Roscoe Fitzgerald hasn't aged. Androids clearly don't last forever -- the show makes it very clear that being an android isn't a fountain of youth. It also shows a number of instances of people who seem to have been reincarnated as children and then grow up into adults -- Roger Smith, Dan Dastun, and Sybil Rowan, to name just three. Immortal robots don't fit what we know. Reincarnation does.

quote:

... [quote]I'd venture to say he partnered with Gordon to build the domes and try and set things right.

Why do you think so?

quote:

He may be responsible for keeping the REAL Roger alive in robot form, hense the assembly line of Roger Robots we see in Roger's weird memories.

That scene was 100% implausible. Anyway, Roger isn't one of those androids. Those androids have their suits molded on as part of their bodies, like a cheap toy; we've seen Roger remove his coat and tie. They're not the same.

quote:

Afterall, he created R. Dorothy who "Chose" Roger Smith. "The job is yours, Roger Smith." Dorothy is perhaps a capsule for holding memories to some extent, possibly carrying them back to the REAL individuals and guiding the false Rogers.--I haven't worked out Dorothy yet.

What about the Megadeuses' affinity for Dorothy? This is a central fact of her existence.

quote:

Now, Beck killed Waynewright unknowingly by order of events planned by the enemy Creator. Ironic since Beck is probably related to Waynewright in some fashion as a lab assisstant given his machine knowledge. Additionally with Beck, Alex Roseater appeared to be aware what sort of game his father was involved in to an extent given his remarks on "Paradigm as a Stage" to Roger and his talk with Beck: he knew Beck's techno-knowledge is nessessary in controlling Paradigm to some extent.

Dastun used the same metaphor. EVERYBODY uses that metaphor.

quote:

Schwarzwald found the truth,

I still think Schwarzwald was just a loon.

quote:

that it's a contest between Gordon and "The Creator" (and perhaps Gordon was an ousted Creator, who knows)--that's why its a comedy--he's only a player, a chess piece on the grid board. Schwarzwald does have one half of his face that looks mechanical. Could Schwarzwald be a robot as well like Big Ear, serving his role to test and move Roger Smith forward. In explains why once his role was dead he could come back as a glitch spirit sort of thing to talk to Alan.

Isn't it obvious that it was Big Duo who was talking to Alan at the end? Schwarzwald was a loon, but he was Big Duo's true Dominus. It's not surprising that Big Duo would project Schwartzwald's form and voice when talking to Alan like a dutch uncle.

quote:

Perhaps he evolved a bit and Daustan too maybe from this latest group of events. I beleive Alan Gabriel was put into the mix by Gordon's enemy to take care of Roger Smith and all those who were threatening to alter the game (Alex Rosewater, the Union, etc), but failed. I noted Angel earlier. One thing that does confuse me but doesn't hurt the theory is where the REAL her came from if it can control BIG VENUS. Is she a rogue element glitch that escaped from "The Creator". Perhaps she was an older Negotiator who became a Dominus like Roger?-- and chose to combine, thus loosing control for a bit. Whatever the case may be, this is definitely making more sense on every account. The artificial cats and dogs talk in Season 1 was a forshadowing that everything is engineered. Regardless, the presense of Angel, Roger, and Dorothy (who can stand in the rain without an umbrella and thus are free) are all unfortunate glitches to the Creator. Can they change the future, maybe BIG-O 3 will show us. Thoughts? Additions?

I think that every character in the show is real. One of the main themes of the show is that people are important; that what they do matters. This is true even of androids and of people who seem to be contorlled by fate. I think that any theory that denies the "realness" of characters in the show is wrong, at least on that point.

I'm also convinced that Angel is the Director that Gordon spoke of. We see this; it's hard to escape the conclusion. Might was well take it into account.

It is a remarkable and workable theory.

However, I won't accept it.

Not to say it's bad, no...But sometimes I think we read TOO much into Big O... I seriously doubt that the Hajime Yatate team put this much effort into their storyline, even with the possibility of the next 26 episodes not being created. It just seems unlikely, especially when they have many other shows to work on at a time.

However, maybe I am underestimating them, this may be the right theory, or it could be something more complicated than this. But I personally think that the solution to everything in Big O is simple. I don't know what that simple thing would be, but I think it's the kind of thing that everyone would say "Oooooooooohhhhh I get it noooow!" once they realized the simplicity of it, not something so complex that you need to super psychoanalyze the series just to understand it.

I don't think we are reading too much into Big O. I am in dissagreement with you about their effort. I think the effort put in was fine, execpt they were forced to finish the series in the last 14 Acts, so I believe there are some serious plot holes and development that are lacking. So it is either wait endlessly for a third season or try to figure it out ourselves.

ahhh.. another theory to add to "The Big Book of Big O Theories Plus 1".

it is a very intersting and logical theory, but i didn't understand some of it though. however it was still a cool theory. )

Well thought out, but not complete. Just like the series.

Big O is incredibly confusing. Flashbacks and other "dream" sequences cannot be taken for face value. Much of it could be metaphorical or nightmares or they could in fact be the all-important memories. Take the assembly line Robot Rogers, they could just be toys alluding to the fact that Roger is hero. There is too much and then again not enough to form complete well-rounded theories.

Another typical Big O theory. Nothing new here, to me at least. This appears to be a combination of all the other theories that are out there. Nice attempt to come up with something new...but alas, its all the same as before.

Still have a hard time grasping the whole "reset" issue...i.e. I dont believe a "reset" ever occurred. Mind you, people's memories were erased, that doesnt mean things were reset.

Remember, nobody has yet to come up with any proof about which things (symbols, characters, actions, etc.) in the series are literal, which ones are figurative, and which ones are symbolic or metaphorical. Until that is done, noone will know what truly happened in Big O. Until the record is set straight, its all up to interpretation and making your own opinion about what is symbolic, real, or not.

I lagree with the idea where Gordon is trying to 'cheat the system' by adding things fun things into it.
Alex was supposed to do something important, but wound up playing a part he was unaware of. Possibly instigating the big mess at the end.
Angel is probably the reset button. And possibly the next in command in Gordaon's plan.
Roger did what he was supposed to do, but I have no idea whatthat specificly is. Something along the lines of preserving the city.
Schwarzwald was supposed to be a counterpart to Roger, but fell away after learning a good deal of the truth. But I don't think he ever knew what Gordon was planning.
Beck was a failed project. Failed in the sense that he was uncontolled. Which is Ok, because it adds randomness to the system.

The union may be the dregs of what Gordon was working on. People that would not be repeated the same way every reset. So, eventualy, reseting will have no purpose in acheiving a desired ending. Eventualy, people will be able to resist resets altogether.

Well, I'm tired, so if it doesn't make any sense, go eat some ice cream.

what about that one episode (Swatzwalds 1st appearance) where Roger is in the old subway and begins to climb down the ladder into that other area then he starts freaking out and falls gets knocked out for a few sec. and sees his mom only to wake up and see dorthy over him. (sorry my description for the episode is bad haven't seen a big o episode scince late 2003) Anyways why would a robot have a mother or are the robots maybe created with a false memory making them think they had parents, family when they are really created in a factory.

I also think that Roger WAS an android in the past. When Gordon tells him about tomatoes, we're sure that he's referring at Paradigm, and i think he's referring at natural human lifeform ("becoming the real thing"). One possibly theory is that Paradigm was a city entirely populated by androids, and mankind tries to regenerate lifeform naturally in the whole city, starting and inspiring by androids. Gordon wants to stop the War of Paradigm (best to say prevent) using emotions and love, who are features of a *true* lifeform like humans. This means that maybe Paradigm was a city built/populated by androids AFTER a possible war between humans and machines where machines wins and take the whole control of town, the last place on Earth.
Note that all is very similar to the Matrix concepts (humans VS machines, Cycle of life, human love against robotic behaviour). There's a strong possibility that machines attempts at firts time to regenerate a lifeform in Paradigm city following the human organization, but everytime the system fails because androides were not like humans. So Gordon understand it and starts to plant human natural form because this is the only way to prevent the final reset.

quote:

Originally posted by Hobodoken I kinda got lost around where you said Roger was a robot... Not trying to diss your theory, but I've always held the assembly line as well as the controll room to be metaphorical.

It's hard to believe, if these are the memories of Roger it's hard to think that's only metaphorical. No, i believe that these are real memory of life lived. Gordon says that repeating again and again the process, an artificial thing becomes a real thing. Obviously, the Roger figures (Wanderer, Soldier, ecc.) are belong to every process started at every time from the Roger Android.

Very interesting theory, I must keep it in mind as I watch through the series again on AS [I don't have the DVDs yet]

I only read the inital post and skimmed the rest of the thread but this came to mind out of nowhere:

Schwatzvald, Vera, and Alan Gabrial all at their final appearance have lost one eye and reflect the megadeuce of Big DUO. the message: if we choose to fail to realize our free choice, we then become what which we choose. The final truth is that there is more than one truth.

quote:

I think that Angel was the one who operated Big Venus and rang down the curtain on the current cycle because she's Big Venus' Dominus -- and the Director -- and always has been. Gordon told us repeatedly that he wasn't the real author of METROPOLIS.

very good point I always thought that angel was the one who reset the place the first time. Maybe she gave gordon what he knows